Since I served for three years on our "red line" in West Germany, I like to think there was never a war then because we did our job, which was "Peace Through Strength".
Ukraine demonstrates what happens when Russians see weakness they can exploit:
Posted on 09/26/2024 5:53:35 AM PDT by Red Badger
WORLD WAR III UPDATE: The globalist left moved the world closer to nuclear war on Wednesday.
Russian President Vladimir Putin met with officials on Wednesday and announced changes to Russia’s nuclear doctrine.
Putin lowered the threshold regarding Russian strategic forces’ use of nukes.
In a televised address to Russia’s Security Council, Putin said nuclear doctrine has been effectively revised in light of recent developments.
Putin warned NATO in his message to top Russian leaders after meetings on Wednesday.
Vladimir Putin: “The updated version of the document proposes that aggression against Russia by any non-nuclear weapons state but with the participation or support of a nuclear weapon state should be regarded as a joint attack on the Russian federation.
The conditions for Russia’s transition to the use of nuclear weapons are also clearly defined. We will consider such a possibility as soon as we receive reliable information about a massive launch of aerospace attack NEDS and their crossing of our state border. Meaning strategic or tactical aircraft, cruise missiles, drones, hypersonic missiles and other aircraft…
…We reserve the right to use nuclear weapons in the event of aggression against Russia and Belarus as a member of the union state. All of these agreements have been agreed upon with the Belarussian side and with the president of Belarus.
The Gateway Pundit reported last week that Vladimir Putin warned that the NATO approval would change the essence of the conflict. Putin also warned that Kiev would be destroyed.
Vladimir Putin: The key is that only NATO servicemen can enter flight assignments into these missile systems. Ukrainian servicemen cannot do this.
And so this is not about allowing the Ukrainian regime to strike Russia with these weapons or not. It’s about deciding whether NATO countries are directly involved in the military conflict or not.
If this decision is made it will mean nothing other than the direct participation of NATO countries, the United States, European countries, in the war in Ukraine. This is their direct participation and this already significantly changes the very essence and the very nature of the conflict…
This would mean that NATO countries, the United States are at war with Russia.
You guys claim Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 because it was close to being in NATO. And you post stuff from this year.
Those Russian psychics are pretty good.
I read the Rossiski sources and besides Sokoloyev and Skabeyeva, and the over 60 year olds, no one wants to go further. The under 40 year olds don't want this 1984 demonization of people they were told (until 2014) were their East Slavic brothers, in fact they were told they were just estranged countrymen.
And not even Sokoloyev wants to nuke Kyiv - do you even understand the significance of Kyiv to the Ruski Mir (Rus world)? -- Kyiv was the place of the Rus foundation, where the Rurikid dynasty (a Germanic dynasty!) established the first East Slavic state
For a Russian to nuke Kyiv would be like for a Frenchman to nuke Paris.
NATO training folks has been going on since 1947. That is NOT an invitation to join. That has been rejected multiple times.
And perhaps Bush training Ukraine was because Putin invaded Georgia. Putin is a megalomaniac. The sooner someone puts a bullet in his head, the better off this world will be.
Nothing like a Biden loving zeeper. McCain/Romney wing are Democrats.
Fools like Biden and you play 3 monkeys.
” say this crap literally every week for the past 2 1/2 years. The “Red line” you speak of appears to be transparent and it wiggles like a worm.” — true
“Ukraine is not an existential threat to Russia.” — correct.
What Ukraine IS to Moscow is the “gathering of the Rus” - which is why they want Belarus and Ukraine
What an amusing non-response. Your summary of "you guys claim" is inaccurate, and without sources or links.
I "claim" non-NATO Ukraine and non-NATO Russia are at war, and I additionally "claim" that no NATO nation has made an official declaration of war against Russia.
--- "...you post stuff from this year...."
And you post no links, sources or refutations.
As to "Russian psychics," the Atlantic Council, US Department of Defense and Voice of America are neither Russian nor psychic.
Ukraine requested to join in 2008 - that was rejected.
Ukraine was invaded by Russia in August 2014.
AFTER that, Ukraine went away from being non-aligned - in December 2014.
Ukraine was invaded by Russia again in 2022 and only then is anyone seriously considering Ukraine’s candidacy.
Net-net —> the “Ukraine to join NATO” was caused by Russia’s invasionS
Since I served for three years on our "red line" in West Germany, I like to think there was never a war then because we did our job, which was "Peace Through Strength".
Ukraine demonstrates what happens when Russians see weakness they can exploit:
“Since I served for three years on our “red line” in West Germany”
So you say - regardless, our military was a TOTAL MESS before Reagan, but the Soviets STILL respected our red line.
A cornered rat is a very dangerous animal.
“And perhaps Bush training Ukraine was because Putin invaded Georgia.”
You can put that trope to bed now, as the EUROPEAN UNION has concluded that the Neocons started that war.
“Wuli The duplicity of Putin - Russian missile strikes deep inside Ukraine do mot elicit a western nuclear response.”
I’ll agree with you ONLY AFTER the Russians send missiles into the US. So far they haven’t, but when they do, so much for FR.
Yep
New tagline
“Yep”
Thanks, and they ALL KNOW IT - they know that Ukraine was on its way into NATO, long before 2022 - otherwise NATO would have DENIED the Russian claims to that effect, but they never did deny it.
So all the crap you read on this thread about Ukraine never entering NATO is bull, only a made-up story by a bunch of people anonymously posting here. What counts is what is PUBLICLY stated and what is not PUBLICLY stated by the people in charge. That is what I base my conclusions on, and that, apparently, is what Russia also bases their conclusions on.
So Russia went in a different direction.
They determined that their only hope in countering the West's massive conventional weapons superiority was to develop nuclear capability to act as strategic defensive deterrent and practical general purpose battlefield tactical nuclear capability.
They made a bet that they could retool their nuclear arsenals by developing on one hand a new highly MIRV ballistic missile system with maneuverable, low observable re entry systems to defeat US missile defense systems.
The other part of the nuclear system was a new generation of “sub critical” variable yield nuclear warheads in the .5-2 kilo ton yield range. These micro nukes were to be paired with new generation low observable cruise missiles and hyper sonic missiles
If war broke out, especially in an isolated battlefield with a limited conflict like the one in Ukraine, the Russians could use the low level tactical nukes to target high value installations and troop concentration in a “sub critical” manner that would not provoke a nuclear response. The Russians rely on this bet because Russia had it's new generation strategic nuclear missiles to intimidate the West from using retaliatory nukes to in a Ukraine like conflict.
Would it work?
I don't know.
Not sure the American people would support going to nuclear war because Russia targeted NATO troop concentrations and air bases on Ukraine territory with low yield micro nukes if NATO decides to intervene and starts hitting targets inside Russia with precision long range weapons.
Pretty sure I don't care to find out.
In all such matters, we never have to be "perfect", we only have to be "good enough" to deter Russian aggression.
So, obviously, your judgment about the US military being "a TOTAL MESS" before Reagan was not shared by the Old Soviets at that time.
In the years before Reagan, we were "good enough" to deter Soviet aggression, at least in Europe.
Ukraine demonstrates what happens when we fall below Russia's judgments on what is, or is not, "good enough".
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