Posted on 05/18/2010 8:41:44 AM PDT by butterdezillion
The Hawaii Department of Health claims in official communications that the original birth index and index of foreign births (which are both required to be retained permanently) don't exist.
When vital records were converted to their current electronic format and the computer itself allowed sorting and locating, the HDOH submitted the old, original paper indices (VR-1)to the comptroller for a determination of what should happen to them. The comptroller agreed that those indices should be retained permanently, as originals and/or as security and search microfilms.
The HDOH at the same time made a separate request for the certificates themselves (VR-2)to be analyzed and it was decided that they, too, should be kept as originals and microfilm security and search copies authorized.
So there were 2 different requests for 2 different kinds of documents which were in physical form, able to be microfilmed.
The Hawaii State Archivist says that microfilm copies were not requested for the indices and the Vital Statistics Office should have the originals as required in the retention schedule.
I asked the HDOH for their documentation regarding the destruction of these documents. (Every department is required to keep detailed records of what documents they have destroyed, showing that they followed the retention schedule.) The deadline for them to respond is past and they have not provided those records.
The illegal destruction of permanent records SHOULD prompt an investigation in Hawaii. We will see what the Ombudsman does with this. (Don't hold your breath)
The documentation for all this is on a new post at my blog, which I will link to in the 2nd comment.
Very well said, butter. This particular situation is a symptom of the larger ROT. Which must be eradicated.
We really don't need that stuff.
We have Obama's assertion that he is the son of Obama Sr. (c.f. "Dreams from My Father"). And we know that Obama Sr. was a British citizen.
That ends the game right there. We don't need to find any documentation. We don't need to verify that the data is this or is that. We already know the answer. Right now. Today.
Obama is not a Naturtal Born Citizen.
O Sr. being daddy is only hearsay without the b/c. The b/c is a legal document that the court will require for any suit against citizenship.
----------------------------
Main Entry: hearsay evidence
Function: noun
Date: 1753
: evidence based not on a witness's personal knowledge but on another's statement not made under oath"
Obama's campaign web site put the (we know it as fake) COLB out there that stated his father was Sr. His book(s) have stated Sr. was his father. I'm not certain those "admissions" by Obama would be considered "hearsay." Does anyone know if there is a public statement (written or spoken) where Obama states Sr. is his father? If so, then it would definitely not be hearsay, but rather his own admission.
I agree with you completely.
Make no mistake on that! And I agree with what you are doing.
I know from experience that there is just a ton of corruption in Hawaiian State Government. There always has been. Hawaii has always been a place where if you had the right friends in the right places, anything was possible, legal or not.
The fact that widespread corruption and cronyism has been discovered in Hawaii, IS important! And it is important to directly force government to abide by the law. So I support what you are doing as well as the reasoning that goes along with it!
This being said, could I ask you to also mention frequently the points I have made? They are the single most important points in all this stuff regarding Barry.
I would ask your assistance in deliberately differentiating the Hawaiian documents issues from the most important fact that those documents are shielding from public view.
The issue of the COLB and Hawaii breaking it’s own laws etc are shielding from public view the fact that Obama is not an NBC because of his PARENTAGE. He is British as much as he is American, and always has been, and he will die with that status as well, unless he gives up one or the other voluntarily.
You cannot be a Natural Born Citizen if born with TWO citizenships. That clause is in the Constitution to prevent such a person from ever becoming POTUS. That is the law Obama is breaking, and THAT is the law that we need to be hammering home every blood second the cretin remains in office.
He is an Illegal POTUS, and has literally de-legitimized the ENTIRE Federal Government. Because he is an usurper, the entire Federal Government of the United States is literally illegitimate. That corruption by far outweighs the corruption in Hawaii.
We do not have a legal government in Washington DC, and because of this, NO AMERICAN IS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO FOLLOW ANY PART OF IT. The states are NOT legally required to follow it. It is quite literally our duty now to fight it, and install a LEGAL government. It is our duty as Americans, and freedom isn’t free. This is the price today.
So, yea, you poor desk jockey in DC forced to surf over “anti-government” speech, that’s called DUTY and HONOR. I am loyal to the CONSTITUTION, NOT AN ILLEGAL GOVERNMENT. And THAT is the real power of being an American. I have the RIGHT to challenge ANY Government official. The gauntlet has been thrown down by me and millions of others just like me who can see the truth.
Obama must remove himself from office, or he should be forced out. Either way, the only thing that can legitimately be done LEGALLY to restore our Government is for the cretin to be removed from the office he has usurped.
When what happened?
If they destroyed the records they did it sometime after the beginning of the year, which was when I received the copy of the DOH retention schedule. If they requested the disposition of those records to be changed that request would have to be included in the DOH retention schedule. As of the beginning of the year there was no such request.
That’s why I asked them to show the documentation for the destruction of those records. The only way they could legally be destroyed is if they were submitted sometime in 2010 and the comptroller changed their permanent retention requirement.
I seem to recall reading that they did the conversions and destructions back in the 90s.
How about in the case of an amendment for adoption or sex change? Would that show in the index and what would it show?
The index we’re talking about isn’t a computer database index.
I’ve asked to see the transaction log for Obama’s record and the HDOH claims that it would cause “frustration of a legitimate government purpose” if that was revealed. Since that exception to disclosure is for situations where a legal investigation would be frustrated, where people would be able to cheat on tests if they knew the information, where the system would have to be shut down for a time in order to access the information, etc, I asked the HDOH exactly what function would be frustrated.
What I’ve heard from them: crickets. As usual. And the OIP won’t even address my appeal until the HDOH is done feeding me crickets - which could go on forever.
The index we’re dealing with is a “vital event” index. There is one index record for that alleged event, regardless of how the particular claims about that event morph over time. Obama was not born twice so there would not be multiple entries in the birth index data, just as there are not multiple entries in index data for anybody who submits additional documentation for their birth claim.
The only thing we know for certain about the pictures on the internet, are that they look like a Hawaiian COLB. You cannot prove OR disprove anything with a photo. The only way to do so is to get a hold of the document itself.
We have seen a picture of what looks like a Hawaiian COLB. No one can say one way or the other if it is legitimate or not, that cannot be done with a photo.
If a photo of the COLB were brought into a courtroom, it would be thrown out. You cannot determine legitimacy through a photo. You would have to have the document itself to do that.
I hate to nitpick on things like that, but it is a matter of logic and specificity.
how convenient
David has expressed something (courtesy ping to David) along the lines of “yes, just having a foreigner for a father makes him a non-NBC, but for public opinion to influnce political action, proof of birth on foreign soil may be needed.”
Something along those lines. IOW, his supporters and the capon R politicians may need something more since obviously so many fools right here on FR think (or at least make the arugment) that a foreign father means squat.
Kind of like (when I served on a grand jury), the DAs would throw as many charges as possible on a criminal even for just one criminal act. Just so something would stick.
“However, my gut tells me that there is some very damaging thing on that B.C.???”
Maybe, maybe not. It’s really irrelevant. I am quite certain that his birth records list Barack Obana Sr. as his father, and that makes him an usurper. This is the ONLY fact that I consider relevant when it comes to Barry’s birth records. In the process of removing the cretin from office, I am sure that the records will be subpoenaed, and the man will be imprisoned.
“Yes. Obama is really in the position — based on years and years of everyone saying that Obama Sr was the father, and based on the COLB that everyone has seen — Obama is now in the position of having to prove that his father was actually someone else. Obama now needs a real birth certificate (with Frank Marshall’s name on it?) to prove that he is a Natural Born Citizen.
Looks like he can’t do that.”
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BINGO! This is the only reason the COLB is relevant at all, and as long as it is hidden, people will focus on it instead of his British Heritage. That is why I want the COLB issue to frankly die. Once it is, THEN people will be able to see and hear the importance of the cretin’s heritage.
You can’t have two citizenships at birth and be a Natural Born Citizen.
Bears repeating over and over again.
They made the request for the indices to be stored in 1980. Judging by the revisions in the laws and rules, it was around 1977 when they switched to electronic storage of BC information. It would make sense to me if they and the comptroller decided what to do with the BC’s and the old paper indices when they were finally done entering the data from the BC’s into the computer database. If that’s the case, then they probably finished that process in 1980.
When I asked Okubo for the instruction manuals for the data entry people who made that conversion she said they no longer had those records because it had been done over 20 years earlier. So it had to have been completed before 1989.
But those records were not supposed to have been destroyed ever - either then or now. They were supposed to be retained permanently, either as originals or as microfilm. The originals and microfilms of the actual certificates still exist, but the HDOH claims that the indices don’t exist.
Note Danae’s comment above. An image from the internet, even a photo, of a COLB isn’t evidence.
And they haven’t come up with anything other than an image on the internet.
And my point, IMO, is still valid.
m’Lady, more than 50% of American voters don’t want the Constitution enforced on their little affirmative action mangod. THAT is the sad reality of our once great Republic.
They did not destroy anything. I am in the process of getting a copy of my own long form from them (born in 69) and if my original records had been destroyed, they would not be able to provide me a means of getting it. Ergo, no records were destroyed.
It was interesting to see that Alvin Onaka, on the page stating the disposition of the index to foreign birth, certificates of foreign birth, and sealed adoption records, noted that the certificates and sealed adoption records were to be listed as vital records and access limited by the applicable laws (including 338-18 for the certificates of foreign birht).
He made no such statement for the index. Index records are public. They are “public health statistics records” (regarding the processing of information) but NOT “vital records”. HRS 338-18(a) does not apply to them.
This flies in the face of what Fukino has been claiming all along.
They didn’t destroy the certificates.
But they either destroyed the indices, or they lied when they said the indices don’t exist.
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