Posted on 04/07/2008 1:28:28 PM PDT by CottShop
Why would a loving God allow evil? Probably one of the biggest issues regarding people’s objection to God, is the underlying feeling that God, ‘if He were God’, would not allow evil to affect so many people. Indeed, there is a great amount of terrible suffering in this world, and people naturally struggle with this important issue.
Some of the accusations leveled toward God that I see quite commonly go along the lines of “God must not be perfect (or omnipotent) if He wasn’t big enough to prevent evil from affecting us”, and usually people will extend this accusation to include something like “Why couldn’t God just have made a world that perhaps allowed sin, but made it so everyone would willingly choose not to indulge in the evil?”
At the root of all such accusations lies the real issue: “Even though we chose not to follow God’s good, I don’t like the fact that I now have to pay for our choice to disobey God, and I don’t like the fact that other people suffer either.”
I’ve seen a great many discussions that go through all manner of rabbit trail diversions, trying to explain away our capability and our deserved come-uppances, but they are all, as I said, just a diversionary attempt to avoid stating the true objections toward God: That Evil exists, we brought it on ourselves, and now we don’t like the results, and God should do something to bail us out immediately.
At this point, I’d like to be blunt, and this might come across as harsh and insensitive, but it is the absolute truth of the matter: We have no right to even exist and be offered an eternity with God our creator. We are the creation, and God has offered us a wonderful eternity if we will simply accept, but it was out of Grace that God even chose to give us this opportunity.
I don’t mean to brush aside the evil by suggesting a hand waving explanation of “Well, it’s just how God decided to do things, and that is that”, but as Glen says in the link that follows, God is being incredibly restrained in His perfect sovereign right to judge us as we ought to be judged. God has allowed evil to exist, as some of you might know, so that grace can abound all the more. Without evil, there would be no free will, and without free will, there would be no occasion for true love to exist. A love that demands that we not suffer, that demands that God act according to our limited understanding of issues far greater than we can possibly comprehend, is a selfish, shallow, “God must obey me before I’ll give my heart to Him” attitude.
This attitude coincidently, is precisely the attitude that Satan exploits, and feeds and causes to fester within us. It is an attitude that Satan Himself had when He decided He wanted God to Obey Him and make Him an equal to God. Our attitude about the situation of Evil is no different than Satan’s was 1000’s of years ago, only our attitudes are formed using different languages and accusations, but at it’s root, our attitude is the very same.
You might be thinking at this point “Oh come on. I would never expect God to obey me, I just think it’s unfair that He allows ‘innocent people’ (especially babies and young children who (haven’t yet had the chance to sin) to suffer horrible diseases or crimes, and die.)
On the surface, this looks like a perfectly humanitarian objection to the presence of evil, yet when carefully examined, we are in essence telling God “Look God- You have no right to allow people to suffer so miserably, and I will not obey Your command to accept Your Son as my Savior until You justify to me that Evil is truly necessary. Either You obey my demand, or I will go to the depths of hell willingly, as I will not serve a God that won’t abide by my inner sense of moralities.”
By stating something like the above, we are saying that our own ascribed moralities trump God’s moralities. In the following excerpt, a reader tells Glen that the bible is so disgustingly filled with violence and bloodshed, and ‘useless judgments.’ Take particular note of Glen’s careful discernment and appropriate answer to the two accusations at the following link (GlenMiller): http://www.christian-thinktank.com/evilgod.html
“—”Maybe we are getting closer to the issues here…I can detect two issues in this paragraph: (1) violence ‘caused by God’ and (2) divine judgments as being ‘senseless’…
On (1) you apparently consider it ‘evil’ for God to do violence (e.g. judicial execution, protection of the innocent), but it is not at all clear to me how you could support this view. I am not at all sure how creatures could have some absolute ‘right’ to restrict their Creator’s actions (good, bad, or otherwise)—the thought seems patently absurd to me. Maybe this a matter of the ‘senseless’ clause in (2) so let’s move on to that.
On (2), you assert that the divine judgments were/are ‘senseless’. This, of course, is a rather absolute statement of knowledge! Granted that you have been thinking about this for 40 years, I strongly suspect that God may actually have data / arguments / reasons that you haven’t had access to or have considered objectively. For you to asset that the judgments are ‘senseless’ MUST be restated more accurately as ‘I cannot see any sense in the divine judgments’—this is a huge difference and one MUCH MORE IN KEEPING with the limited epistemic faculties of humanity!
It would also probably be helpful for you to describe what kinds of judgments ARE ‘sense-ful’ according to your standards. Are judgments YOU make of people ‘sensible’? Why? What about the judgments you make of God or Christians or skeptics? How would YOU define ‘sensible’? I suspect (although it is early in our discussion and I could VERY EASILY be wrong) that your definition of ‘senseless’ is basically ‘that which you disagree with morally, or that which you cannot see a justification for’. Again, be careful that you are not being presumptive or rash in your conclusions.”
Glen has the particular gift of seeing through the veneer in questions, and getting to the root of objections in a patient and respectful manner. I’ve read a few of his dissertations on difficult issues asked by honest inquiring minds, and he has a way of making us see what it is that we really object to in a way that gently coerces our deepest root feelings to the surface.
Glen brings up a good point in this link. To some, the bible might seem filled, or at least the majority of it, filled with unkindness, Evil, pestilence, sufferings etc, and some might argue that love is rarely expressed in God’s word, yet let us not forget the tremendous sacrifices of Christ, the prophets, the apostles, the offer of forgiveness etc.
The emailer in the link above then gets to the core of his objections and tells Glen that he thinks God is unfair for killing babies, drowning ‘innocent’ people and animals, etc. Let’s take particular note of Glen’s response here:
“Now I think we are getting into your issues. What I see surfacing are some assumptions that you need to justify, in my opinion…
For example, you are making an assumption that God is ‘evil’ to drown what you call ‘innocent animals’. What, in your opinion is a ‘guilty’ animal? What moral standards are YOU aware of that you render upon God that requires him to ‘force’ every animal to die a ‘natural death’ (whatever that is?!)…
When God made animals, in what way was He obligated to them? When they die of ‘natural causes’ (e.g. ‘in their sleep’) in what sense is God ‘less’ (or ‘not’ ) guilty than if He has them drown in a flood or die from a tree-fall or get eaten by a predator? Or is God ‘morally required’ to have them ‘live forever’?!
While I would agree that I would find it offensive if God made animals (with requisite nervous systems) to simply torture them (cf. Proverbs 12.10 A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.), I consider that RADICALLY different that God making animals, demonstrating His goodness to them by a natural life-cycle and preservation of the species, and eventually causing cessation of consciousness. I don’t see this as evil as all; in fact, I have to consider it evidence for God’s goodness…
Now let’s take the case of human life. In what ways is God morally obligated to us? When we die of ‘natural causes’ (e.g. ‘in our sleep’) in what sense is God ‘less’ (or ‘not’) guilty than if He has us drown in a flood or die from a tree-fall or get shot by a violent criminal? Or is God ‘morally required’ to have us ‘live forever’?! (and what would be you privileged base of data to support a position on the above? Your ‘common sense’ , ‘moral intuitions’, ’statistical piety of your subculture’?)…”
Pretty powerful stuff here. Glen then goes on to show that we accuse God not based on God’s obligations as ruler of everything, but rather mistakenly based on our knowledge of Christ the redeemer, the perfect example of sevantude. Christ became our example of good, and we then assign what we think to be good to a God, the ruler of everything, an attribute that is inappropriate for an omnipotent God.
Every judge must judge absolutely (or at least they should, many do not, and judge unfairly- disobeying their creed and disobeying God in the process). God, the ultimate judge, will and does judge absolutely. Sin can not coexist alongside God’s supreme Holiness- it just simply can not. He must judge, and He must do so judiciously and fairly. God knows the past present and future, and He knows each person’s heart past present and future, and His judgments are based on that knowledge. Those cities that were wiped out in the Bible, were not the ‘innocent’ civilizations that people try to make them out to be when they argue that God acted unfairly, killing many ‘innocent’ babies, children and people. These cities were the worst of the worst- sacrificing their babies to false gods, killing people who believed in God. Their hearts were entirely evil (and would have been entirely evil had those innocent children’ been allowed to grow up- remember God knows the TRUE hearts of every person past present and future, and He is not fooled by their false exterior appearances- God looks into the hearts where no man can see)
I know that this is only a partial explanation of why God allows evil, and I’ll be glad to expand on this further in another post if any of you have questions, but I think that reading through the link above will begin to honestly answer many of the objections of those who honestly seek an answer.
So we can know good ....
Why DOES God allow evil? For that matter, why does He allow Democrats?
Yes. Without the one, we would not recognize the other.
People tend to forget the existence of Satan. I would imagine it's all about free will. All of us are tempted at times and we can either go with it or resist.
true- Glen goes into this in more depth and detail- be sure to give his link a look- very interesting
Dems? So that the good of hte Reps can be compared agianst hte evil of the Dems.
Yup- there definately is a spiritual realm and there is a war goign on that we know very little about. Satan only has partial restrained control here on earth though- thankfully, because if he had more control- unparralled evil would be unbearable upon us.
I'd go a step further. Without evil, there could be no good. To be capable of one is to be capable of the other. Without the Ted Bundys of the world, there could be no Mozarts. Without Mengeles, there could be no Salks. Without Hitlers, there could be no Washingtons. Even natural disasters play a role. How much of our technology that makes lives more enjoyable is the result of our attempts to avert destruction by nature?
Frankly, this works whether or not God exists. As some who believes God exists, however, I have to conclude that God set up the world and human species to have free will, which is our potential for evil. Whether He personally introduced it or not, it was His intent that evil exist. It had to, if we were not to remain mindless animals.
“Why DOES God allow evil? For that matter, why does He allow Democrats?”
Because he made man with the potential to be good, but with the wonderful power of “choice.” I can choose good, or I can choose evil, or I can choose to be a Democrat. He is not in the business of making robots or puppets to heed His beck and call.
I have been seriously struggling with this ever since I became a Christian just over a year ago. Its something that is keeping me from totally trusting God.
IMO to say that its because of free will is an excuse because God created EVERYTHING and isn’t bound by rules or laws. Why does he allow Satan to run loose?
If anyone can enlighten me on this issue please do so. I’m so sick of thinking and struggling with this issue.
Because He can. Never heard of the concept of “free will”, eh?
C. S. Lewis’ books “Mere Christianity” and “The Problem of Pain” address this issue very nicely.
It is actually logically much simpler than one would think.
For what reason, other than to have a betting partner, did your god create satan?
We assume that God is all-powerful and all-good. Why would God resort to any means that involved something "not good" if He is not bound by logic or the rules of this universe?
For example, it is said that God allows evil so that we'll have a point of comparison for appreciating the good. Or it is said that God allows evil so that we will be able to exercise free will. The underlying assumption is that if God did not order the universe this way, neither of these objectives (appreciation of the good or exercise of free will) would be possible.
But why wouldn't they be possible? Why couldn't an all-powerful God, who created the universe and all the rules governing it, make it so that we could simulataneously enjoy free will AND not have the ability to make the wrong choices? Why can't an all powerful God give us the ability to appreciate the good WITHOUT ever having to experience evil?
I know those questions seem illogical, but remember that God is the creator of logic and is not bound by logic. An all powerful God, by definition, can achieve any objective by any means. So why would He choose means that involved evil?
The only possible answers I can think of are
a). God is not all-poweful
b). There is no such thing as good or evil (or God is indifferent to good/evil)
c). God doesn't exist
Is there any other possible answer?
I thought God orders Adam and Eve NOT to partake of the tree
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying: 'Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.'
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