Replies

God has allowed evil to exist, as some of you might know, so that grace can abound all the more. Without evil, there would be no free will, and without free will, there would be no occasion for true love to exist.

We assume that God is all-powerful and all-good. Why would God resort to any means that involved something "not good" if He is not bound by logic or the rules of this universe?

For example, it is said that God allows evil so that we'll have a point of comparison for appreciating the good. Or it is said that God allows evil so that we will be able to exercise free will. The underlying assumption is that if God did not order the universe this way, neither of these objectives (appreciation of the good or exercise of free will) would be possible.

But why wouldn't they be possible? Why couldn't an all-powerful God, who created the universe and all the rules governing it, make it so that we could simulataneously enjoy free will AND not have the ability to make the wrong choices? Why can't an all powerful God give us the ability to appreciate the good WITHOUT ever having to experience evil?

I know those questions seem illogical, but remember that God is the creator of logic and is not bound by logic. An all powerful God, by definition, can achieve any objective by any means. So why would He choose means that involved evil?

The only possible answers I can think of are

a). God is not all-poweful
b). There is no such thing as good or evil (or God is indifferent to good/evil)
c). God doesn't exist

Is there any other possible answer?

Why couldn't an all-powerful God, who created the universe and all the rules governing it, make it so that we could simulataneously enjoy free will AND not have the ability to make the wrong choices?
Because free will means the ability to make choices. There is evil here because this is not Heaven, this is the Fallen world. Adam and Eve essentially did live in the place you wish the world was.

And to those other posters asking why doesn't God make everything right, well, He did already, and we made the choice to "leave" and know death. God performs miracles all the time, not the least of which is what happens every time a new life is created.
Maybe God wants us to learn what true Love is so we will understand what it means to give and trust without question. Maybe if we'd truly loved Him we would have had that trust to obey without question and we'd still be in Eden.

[[We assume that God is all-powerful and all-good]]

We actually do more than “assume”- we have first hand knowledge of htis fact through eyewitness accounts.

[[Why would God resort to any means that involved something “not good” if He is not bound by logic or the rules of this universe?]]

God resorts to evil?

[[For example, it is said that God allows evil so that we’ll have a point of comparison for appreciating the good.]]

I’ll have to correct you here- while an outcome of God’s actions can give us a reference of good and evil- God does not allow evil so that we will have a reference- He allows Evil as judgement, His actions and Holy and Just judgements are not for our ‘edification’.

[[Why couldn’t an all-powerful God, who created the universe and all the rules governing it, make it so that we could simulataneously enjoy free will AND not have the ability to make the wrong choices?]]

The quick answer is because then love is shallow and forced- there’s just no gettign aroudn this fact- if we’re made to love Him without hte possibility of choosing not to- then there simply is no choice, and thus no free will. (And by the way- as I’ve said in my blog in the past- God does work in the saved individual’s life to want to love Him as we aught- but htis coems after we freely choose to accept salvation. Even after salvation, we still have sin nature, and our wills still resist wanting to love and serve Him as we ought to, but ?He graciously gives us hte Holy Spirit which will, if we ask in a truthful and honest manner somethign liek “God- I really don’t weant to love You as I ought, please give me the desire even htough I don’t want it really becaue it conflicts with my will”

[[I know those questions seem illogical, but remember that God is the creator of logic and is not bound by logic.]]

No- they’r3e not illogical and are good quesitons.

[[An all powerful God, by definition, can achieve any objective by any means. ]]

Actually no- God’s Holiness can not achieve evil- all powerful does not mean capable of anythign imanigable- God’s Holy Nature constrains Him agaisnt doing certain things that are contrary to His nature.

"God is the creator of logic and is not bound by logic."

God didn't create logic. He simply appreciates and values it as a sentient rational being.

"Why couldn't an all-powerful God, who created the universe and all the rules governing it, make it so that we could simulataneously enjoy free will AND not have the ability to make the wrong choices?"

Robots.

Gen 1:26:27, Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, ...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."" God created folks as sentient rational beings, exactly like Him. Note that He came here Himself in person and acknowledged that. John 10:34:36 "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[Psalm 82:6]? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?"

"An all powerful God, by definition, can achieve any objective by any means."

God is not defined. God is a person that came in person to teach who He is, what He thinks and what He is concerned with. He certainly does not value the attainment of objectives by any means.

"Why didn't God make the world so that Adam and Eve could have free will, but at the same time make them unable to stain humanity with their mistakes?"

The story of Adam and Eve is parable. There's no such thing as the stain and the fall of man. Nothing ever changed from Gen 1:26:27. Ezkiel 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

The Doctrine of Original Sin and the fall of man are hte creation of Augustine and the Council of Orange. They're contradicted by all of Ezekiel 18 and all of John 9. In John 9:3 God said, that neither the blind man, nor his parents sinned. The blind man acted righteous throughout. The discussion between the blind man and the Pharisees ends as follows: John 9:28 "Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses! We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from."

The man answered, "Now that is remarkable! You don't know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."

To this they replied, "You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!" And they threw him out. "

It was replayed at the Council of Orange.

"according to *our* conception of logic"

Logic is logic. It is unique and singular always and everywhere.

"If God wanted a universe where 2 + 2 = both 4 and 5, He could make it so."

No.

"I ask why God could not create a universe where evil did not exist."

His purpose was to give the gift of life as a being equivalent to Himself. That included the power to create life. It wasn't a robotics class project.