Posted on 12/04/2006 6:10:06 PM PST by goldstategop
RUSH: John in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hello.
CALLER: Mr. Rush, don't you think you're being a hypocrite when you're not -- when you don't want the Iraqis to decide the problems themselves, especially since Abraham Lincoln took two -- two generals named Lincoln [sic--Grant] and Sherman who were responsible for the deaths of 59,000 southern people? And since you hate Confederate heritage that much, don't you think that we should allow the people of Iraq to decide their own fate?
RUSH: (Laughing.) Gee. I hate Confederate heritage?
CALLER: No kidding.
RUSH: On the basis of what do you say that?
CALLER: Okay, allow me to quote you from 2001: "The American Civil War was the first conflict in human history to set a people free from the bondage of slavery." Your quote, sir.
RUSH: Yeah?
CALLER: And that's not --
RUSH: Well, the point is, we fought --
CALLER: -- power --
RUSH: Are we going to have this argument, Steve?
CALLER: Yes, sir, we are, if you've got the nerve to hold it!
RUSH: I'll have this argument with you any time you want. I've been hearing from you guys since I started this show. I know, it's about states' rights, it was about freedom; it was about independence. But it was about preserving the union -- and Abraham Lincoln knew that you couldn't preserve an America with the institutions defined by our Constitution if one man was allowed to own another.
CALLER: Well, you could not preserve the Constitution as long as you could override it by military power and invasion.
RUSH: Well, there was the preservation of the union that was the number one --
CALLER: How about the preservation of the Constitution, shouldn't that be predominant?
RUSH: Look, you still want to secede? What's your solution?
CALLER: We have no choice, we're under occupation now. The thing about it is you still have to lie about Abraham Lincoln to prove your, to make your point.
RUSH: I'm not lying about Abraham Lincoln. What do you mean, you're still under occupation?
CALLER: Put it this way. The South was not allowed to vote its own way; we're not going to allow Iraq to vote its own government, either.
RUSH: But we did.
CALLER: Do you think we're really abiding by that? What they voted for, we're trying to subvert it by military occupation. No difference than what they did here for 12 years in Louisiana. You don't think we don't see that? You don't think we don't see you as a hypocrite for what you say about, oh, yeah, preserve the union, but let's never mind, let's take away the vote from those who are the voting citizens --
RUSH: I cannot believe this!
CALLER: -- Constitution!
RUSH: I can't believe this. You are taking out your frustrations at having lost the Civil War on me and claiming I'm a hypocrite because of my stance on the Iraq war?
CALLER: Yes, sir.
RUSH: Which I don't even think you know what it is.
CALLER: I don't think you know -- I don't think you know who Abraham Lincoln was.
RUSH: I certainly know who Abraham Lincoln was. He's one of the greatest presidents in the history of the country.
CALLER: Who said that --
RUSH: And it wasn't because he defeated the south. It was because he preserved the union.
CALLER: He preserved the union by trampling the Constitution!
RUSH: He did not trample the Constitution. He suspended habeas corpus. He did do some things I wish Bush would do.
CALLER: Like kill 59,000 innocent civilians?
RUSH: Are you talking about Sherman's march through Atlanta?
CALLER: And -- and -- and Grant's shelling the city of Vicksburg. Hello?
RUSH: It won the war, didn't it? You ever heard of Gettysburg? It won the war and that was the objective. I'll tell you what I wish Bush would do that Lincoln did. Take all these anti-war agitators and send 'em to Canada. Send the National Guard in there. Send Harry Reid over to Baghdad if he's going to be so socially --
CALLER: Like that Ohio Congressman Vallandigham, huh?
RUSH: Absolutely, like that Ohio congressman, that Democrat that was snatched out of his house and sent down to Jefferson Davis, who also didn't want him.
CALLER: Well, at least I got you to acknowledge that.
RUSH: Acknowledge what?
CALLER: Well, the fact that Lincoln did have his secret police who went into people's houses, pulled them out in the middle of the night, and had them -- and had them --
RUSH: You know what? I hope before you die you learn to thank God for Abraham Lincoln.
CALLER: I hope before you die you learn what a racist and a bigot and a power-hungry maniac he was.
RUSH: I'm the racist and the bigot?
CALLER: I didn't say you were. I said he was!
RUSH: Oh. Abraham Lincoln? How in the world you can call a guy who ended slavery a racist and a bigot? I have heard everything now. Everything, in 22 years of hosting this program, I have heard everything.
The Good Ole USofA may be involved in another "Civil War". We support Tiawan's independence and China wants it "back". Coming from Abe's viewpoint, who do we support?
If Abe was President of China, what would he do?
Also it was the South who started the war...
All I got to say is read the book by Thomas Sowell entitled "The Real Abraham Lincoln."
It gives a completely different perspective than most of us ever learned in our History courses in school.
http://www.tsowell.com/
Wow. This one is sure to bring out the FReeper nutballs.
"I am not in favor of making voters or jurors Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office... I am not in favor of Negro. ABE Lincoln
In August, 1862 Lincoln wrote a letter to Horace Greeley, an editor of the New York Tribune, who published an open letter insisting President Lincoln free the slaves immediately. In Lincoln's reply he wrote "If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that"(Voices of America, p.138).
'Nuff said.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus
Correct. Look at historical events such as the Missouri Compromise (1820), the Great Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act (1854), and even the genesis of the "three-fifths" clauses in the Constitution itself, you'll see that the controversy over slavery was bound to result in a war eventually.
"It's me, it's me. It's Ernest T."
Sherman was a ruthless SOB, but he understood that to beat an enemy you had to make them feel beaten. Making the civilian population understand the futility of continuing a war is a tactic that was used with great effectiveness against Germany and Japan.
I saw Confederate Kook and the first thing I did was look to find out if the guy was from Texas or Md. which seems to be home for one of the more colorful of the CW voices.
STAND WATIE
is from. But the guy says he's from Louisiana.....Although I seem to remember from a prior posting that this guy got a few "PhDs or MS" degrees from somewhere down that way.
It was probably him calling ElRushbo.
.
Oh, and Rush's caption..."the superior generalship of Grant?" That's laughable. Grant had a huge material superiority over Lee...he could afford to grind the Army of Northern Virginia down with his attacks because eventually, Lee would run out of supplies and places to run.
What Grant was, was the best general *for that situation.* He was the right man for that particular job. But I don't think a lot of people are seriously going to claim that he was a superior strategist or leader to Lee.
There's some parallels between Lee/Grant and Rommel/Montgomery, actually. Monty had the material superiority, he could afford to pound Rommel to pieces in North Africa, and he did. Montgomery couldn't fight like Rommel, and Grant couldn't fight like Lee. They were simply different personalities, in different situations, with different styles. But honestly, I think it's a measure of just how good Lee and his commanders were that the Army of Northern Virginia held out as long as it did against what it faced.
}:-)4
"I consider Robert E. Lee the greatest traitor in American history. I stand foursquare for The Union."
I didn't ask you if you stood foursquare for the Union, but since you brought it up, so did Lee, so you are in good company my friend.
You are a Union kook if you cannot admire Lee as the great American he clearly was.
You know, there was slavery all over the western world just a century before Lincoln. There was slavery in New York State. But it ended, not with a bang but with a whimper. It would have ended in the South sooner or later too.
And, of course, you buy the nonsense that Lincoln attacked the South to free the Slaves. The Great Emancipation Proclamation (which freed no one) didn't come until halfway through the war. There may have been some in the South who were fighting to prolong the institution of Slavery, but do you really think anyone in the North was fighting to end it?
ML/NJ
LOL! "You ain't heard the las' of Ernest T. Bass."
"Sherman was a ruthless SOB, but he understood that to beat an enemy you had to make them feel beaten"
Military people worldwide still study the brilliant tactics of Lee & Jackson.
They study Sherman somewhat less so. I don't believe that he cared whether or not the south FELT beaten, I think he didn't know any better.
Yeah well, so did McClellan, and Burnside, and Hooker, and Meade....
There are many liberals on FR who just love the expansion of Federal power, and, therefore, just *adore* Lincoln.
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