Posted on 12/04/2006 6:10:06 PM PST by goldstategop
RUSH: John in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hello.
CALLER: Mr. Rush, don't you think you're being a hypocrite when you're not -- when you don't want the Iraqis to decide the problems themselves, especially since Abraham Lincoln took two -- two generals named Lincoln [sic--Grant] and Sherman who were responsible for the deaths of 59,000 southern people? And since you hate Confederate heritage that much, don't you think that we should allow the people of Iraq to decide their own fate?
RUSH: (Laughing.) Gee. I hate Confederate heritage?
CALLER: No kidding.
RUSH: On the basis of what do you say that?
CALLER: Okay, allow me to quote you from 2001: "The American Civil War was the first conflict in human history to set a people free from the bondage of slavery." Your quote, sir.
RUSH: Yeah?
CALLER: And that's not --
RUSH: Well, the point is, we fought --
CALLER: -- power --
RUSH: Are we going to have this argument, Steve?
CALLER: Yes, sir, we are, if you've got the nerve to hold it!
RUSH: I'll have this argument with you any time you want. I've been hearing from you guys since I started this show. I know, it's about states' rights, it was about freedom; it was about independence. But it was about preserving the union -- and Abraham Lincoln knew that you couldn't preserve an America with the institutions defined by our Constitution if one man was allowed to own another.
CALLER: Well, you could not preserve the Constitution as long as you could override it by military power and invasion.
RUSH: Well, there was the preservation of the union that was the number one --
CALLER: How about the preservation of the Constitution, shouldn't that be predominant?
RUSH: Look, you still want to secede? What's your solution?
CALLER: We have no choice, we're under occupation now. The thing about it is you still have to lie about Abraham Lincoln to prove your, to make your point.
RUSH: I'm not lying about Abraham Lincoln. What do you mean, you're still under occupation?
CALLER: Put it this way. The South was not allowed to vote its own way; we're not going to allow Iraq to vote its own government, either.
RUSH: But we did.
CALLER: Do you think we're really abiding by that? What they voted for, we're trying to subvert it by military occupation. No difference than what they did here for 12 years in Louisiana. You don't think we don't see that? You don't think we don't see you as a hypocrite for what you say about, oh, yeah, preserve the union, but let's never mind, let's take away the vote from those who are the voting citizens --
RUSH: I cannot believe this!
CALLER: -- Constitution!
RUSH: I can't believe this. You are taking out your frustrations at having lost the Civil War on me and claiming I'm a hypocrite because of my stance on the Iraq war?
CALLER: Yes, sir.
RUSH: Which I don't even think you know what it is.
CALLER: I don't think you know -- I don't think you know who Abraham Lincoln was.
RUSH: I certainly know who Abraham Lincoln was. He's one of the greatest presidents in the history of the country.
CALLER: Who said that --
RUSH: And it wasn't because he defeated the south. It was because he preserved the union.
CALLER: He preserved the union by trampling the Constitution!
RUSH: He did not trample the Constitution. He suspended habeas corpus. He did do some things I wish Bush would do.
CALLER: Like kill 59,000 innocent civilians?
RUSH: Are you talking about Sherman's march through Atlanta?
CALLER: And -- and -- and Grant's shelling the city of Vicksburg. Hello?
RUSH: It won the war, didn't it? You ever heard of Gettysburg? It won the war and that was the objective. I'll tell you what I wish Bush would do that Lincoln did. Take all these anti-war agitators and send 'em to Canada. Send the National Guard in there. Send Harry Reid over to Baghdad if he's going to be so socially --
CALLER: Like that Ohio Congressman Vallandigham, huh?
RUSH: Absolutely, like that Ohio congressman, that Democrat that was snatched out of his house and sent down to Jefferson Davis, who also didn't want him.
CALLER: Well, at least I got you to acknowledge that.
RUSH: Acknowledge what?
CALLER: Well, the fact that Lincoln did have his secret police who went into people's houses, pulled them out in the middle of the night, and had them -- and had them --
RUSH: You know what? I hope before you die you learn to thank God for Abraham Lincoln.
CALLER: I hope before you die you learn what a racist and a bigot and a power-hungry maniac he was.
RUSH: I'm the racist and the bigot?
CALLER: I didn't say you were. I said he was!
RUSH: Oh. Abraham Lincoln? How in the world you can call a guy who ended slavery a racist and a bigot? I have heard everything now. Everything, in 22 years of hosting this program, I have heard everything.
"The winner gets to write "history"."
Not in the present day and age. The losers are oppressed victims. Historians like to write their stories.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus
As long as you agree with big government being the primary solution to all state problems, then your response is w/o argument.
You cannot defend Lincoln's selective defense of the Constitution, unless you admit that some clauses were more 'defendable' then others. Lincoln and the North decided, during the course of the War, that some clauses in the Constitution justfied war, while others could be ignored.
Justification for ending slavery, not withstanding, Lincoln was selective.
But I am logging off so fire away if you want, but I won't be here.
"Yes we can expect the Southern Lost Cause Brigade to rally on FR to twist the truth around"
So, you'd probably disagree with the statement "Robert E. Lee was a great American", wouldn't you?
This question is the quickest way to smoke out those who really don't understand the Civil War, and I suspect you are probably one of them.
It does seem ironic that the Democrats can't seem to get with the program - unless they're running it.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus
The basis for the foundation of the Republican Party was the abolition of slavery.
BINGO!!!
Yes, the "occupation" down here in Texas has been hell.
Really, by what standard is he the "greatest"? Greater than the founding fathers? I mean, he saved the union, at a huge cost at the time (which might have been ok.. hard to say it could have been done easyier, but the military effort was totally inept the first two years). During the process, he imprisoned political foes without trial, he imposed an income tax, etc. etc. Most of those things were the basis on which a larger government was built later. Please, I am not a Lincoln basher, but I don't think he is "the greatest" either.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus
Thats just good radio!
Lee should command the respect of both sides the way Saladin and Rommel did.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus
So what do you think happened to the government bequeathed to us by Madison and Jefferson?
When I suggested to a very prominent "Civil War" academic (as an adult after sitting in on his graduate class) that Lincoln destroyed that government, his defense of Lincoln to me was, "Yeah, but he had some help." He also told me that no one in his position could yet write an honest history of the period.
ML/NJ
See, in the end, I think it worked out for the best that the South lost--and I say that as a proud Virginian and Southerner that grew up 25 miles from Appomattox. But that's not to say that the South losing has been all good.
My bigger beef here is with the anti-Southern crowd who think like northeastern liberals--all Southerners are rednecks, all Southerners are racists, etc. And, the crowd that ignores the fact that the vast, vast majority of Confederate soldiers were fighting in the defense of their homes from an invading army.
This sanctification of Lincoln bothers me. Lincoln was no saint. He was a smart man, a very shrewd and calculating politician who was willing to do virtually anything to save the United States of America as he saw it--and that included violating portions of its own Constitution. He did what he thought he had to do. And eventually he found men of that same ruthlessness--Grant, Sherman, etc.--that did what they had to do to win.
}:-)4
Unless the losers are white and/or christian.
Rush has never been to FR, has he : )
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