Posted on 12/04/2006 6:10:06 PM PST by goldstategop
RUSH: John in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hello.
CALLER: Mr. Rush, don't you think you're being a hypocrite when you're not -- when you don't want the Iraqis to decide the problems themselves, especially since Abraham Lincoln took two -- two generals named Lincoln [sic--Grant] and Sherman who were responsible for the deaths of 59,000 southern people? And since you hate Confederate heritage that much, don't you think that we should allow the people of Iraq to decide their own fate?
RUSH: (Laughing.) Gee. I hate Confederate heritage?
CALLER: No kidding.
RUSH: On the basis of what do you say that?
CALLER: Okay, allow me to quote you from 2001: "The American Civil War was the first conflict in human history to set a people free from the bondage of slavery." Your quote, sir.
RUSH: Yeah?
CALLER: And that's not --
RUSH: Well, the point is, we fought --
CALLER: -- power --
RUSH: Are we going to have this argument, Steve?
CALLER: Yes, sir, we are, if you've got the nerve to hold it!
RUSH: I'll have this argument with you any time you want. I've been hearing from you guys since I started this show. I know, it's about states' rights, it was about freedom; it was about independence. But it was about preserving the union -- and Abraham Lincoln knew that you couldn't preserve an America with the institutions defined by our Constitution if one man was allowed to own another.
CALLER: Well, you could not preserve the Constitution as long as you could override it by military power and invasion.
RUSH: Well, there was the preservation of the union that was the number one --
CALLER: How about the preservation of the Constitution, shouldn't that be predominant?
RUSH: Look, you still want to secede? What's your solution?
CALLER: We have no choice, we're under occupation now. The thing about it is you still have to lie about Abraham Lincoln to prove your, to make your point.
RUSH: I'm not lying about Abraham Lincoln. What do you mean, you're still under occupation?
CALLER: Put it this way. The South was not allowed to vote its own way; we're not going to allow Iraq to vote its own government, either.
RUSH: But we did.
CALLER: Do you think we're really abiding by that? What they voted for, we're trying to subvert it by military occupation. No difference than what they did here for 12 years in Louisiana. You don't think we don't see that? You don't think we don't see you as a hypocrite for what you say about, oh, yeah, preserve the union, but let's never mind, let's take away the vote from those who are the voting citizens --
RUSH: I cannot believe this!
CALLER: -- Constitution!
RUSH: I can't believe this. You are taking out your frustrations at having lost the Civil War on me and claiming I'm a hypocrite because of my stance on the Iraq war?
CALLER: Yes, sir.
RUSH: Which I don't even think you know what it is.
CALLER: I don't think you know -- I don't think you know who Abraham Lincoln was.
RUSH: I certainly know who Abraham Lincoln was. He's one of the greatest presidents in the history of the country.
CALLER: Who said that --
RUSH: And it wasn't because he defeated the south. It was because he preserved the union.
CALLER: He preserved the union by trampling the Constitution!
RUSH: He did not trample the Constitution. He suspended habeas corpus. He did do some things I wish Bush would do.
CALLER: Like kill 59,000 innocent civilians?
RUSH: Are you talking about Sherman's march through Atlanta?
CALLER: And -- and -- and Grant's shelling the city of Vicksburg. Hello?
RUSH: It won the war, didn't it? You ever heard of Gettysburg? It won the war and that was the objective. I'll tell you what I wish Bush would do that Lincoln did. Take all these anti-war agitators and send 'em to Canada. Send the National Guard in there. Send Harry Reid over to Baghdad if he's going to be so socially --
CALLER: Like that Ohio Congressman Vallandigham, huh?
RUSH: Absolutely, like that Ohio congressman, that Democrat that was snatched out of his house and sent down to Jefferson Davis, who also didn't want him.
CALLER: Well, at least I got you to acknowledge that.
RUSH: Acknowledge what?
CALLER: Well, the fact that Lincoln did have his secret police who went into people's houses, pulled them out in the middle of the night, and had them -- and had them --
RUSH: You know what? I hope before you die you learn to thank God for Abraham Lincoln.
CALLER: I hope before you die you learn what a racist and a bigot and a power-hungry maniac he was.
RUSH: I'm the racist and the bigot?
CALLER: I didn't say you were. I said he was!
RUSH: Oh. Abraham Lincoln? How in the world you can call a guy who ended slavery a racist and a bigot? I have heard everything now. Everything, in 22 years of hosting this program, I have heard everything.
"And "raping and piligaing" of your enemies home soil had better be the goal of any modern Army. "
Good lord. You are not right in the head if you believe this, nor have you ever served in the military.
This is not what Lee would have done, and he is the model for modern warfare, not Sherman. Sherman's way is the way of barbarian hordes, THAT is the old way.
I would certainly grant that the slaves had a right to rebel, but it's very hard to see where any of the people of the South lost this right. Do you think we, all of us, North and South, and West too, don't have it here and now?
ML/NJ
Why exactly would I care WHAT happens in Georgia? LOL!
The South didn't. They LEFT. Show me where the Constitution forbids secession. You can't.
Really, you know this? How many of these black Union soldiers do you think there were? Do you think there were more of them than there were black Confederate soldiers?
ML/NJ
I don't see where it is FORBIDDEN EITHER.
According to YOUR opinion. LOL
"Robert bin Lee...."
Why would you denigrate one of your great fellow americans thusly?
I keep waiting for your posts to articulate something meaningful, but you, like most of the folks that want to try to deny that the confederacy is part of YOUR history seem to simply prefer taking potshots from the intellectual sidelines.
What's your point?
Federal-beast bump. Needs to be said more often.
And it also needs to be said more often, that the federal beast serves either 1) Yankee "Old Money" (the deracinated descendants of the robber barons) or 2) odious little Eurotwit socialists who run around agitating for government ownership of the citizenry.
Say what? By modern standards an evil bitch who should be in jail is the Senator from NY and a dweeb naive black from Illinois is annointed our next President.???? Obama isn't fit to lick Lincoln's boots......or MINE!
It is also worth noting that generals with names like von Kleist, von Manstein, von Leeb, von Paulus, and von Runstedt waged war Sherman's way in Russia, and the result was the most bitter war in human history, exceeding even the wars against the Mongols in its savagery. Russian veterans forbade German eleemosynary organizations the privilege even of collecting for burial the 50-year-old remains of German dead at Stalingrad, who were left lying where they fell by the Russians.
That's war, Billy Sherman's way.
Note also that, by distinct contrast, the U.S. military did not follow Sherman's prescription in either the Gulf War or the Iraq War, of destroying things just to destroy them, in order to deny "comfort to the enemy" or just to "make Georgia howl."
Pelham, my dear friend!
bump
Virginia didn't need Congress or anyone else to "give them the right" to leave the Union -- or to enter it. They had the right, intact and perfect. The Virginians never conferred on anyone the right to interfere with their comings and goings.
Congress had, and has, no power to determine such matters, zero, zilch. There has been no such power conveyed by the People via the Constitution to Congress. You think different, show me the quote. Show me the black-letter law.
It seems that you care about legal matters when it suits you.
More true of you than of him.
It could have, possibly, ended the war in the favor of my fine fighting boys in gray...
If you are reading something into the Constitution that is not specifically written, than you doing what the liberals do, make it a document open to subjective whim.
If secession were an option, there would have been a legal mechanism for it.
The emphasis on the Constitution being formed by the People and not the states was deliberate, to bind the people as one people.
They are on are on both sides and not just one.
Virginia made a decision to enter the Union and when she did she became a state in that Union.
There is nothing in the Constitution that gives it or any other state the right to leave it, no more then it does for any state to be ejected.
I think the only people who had a complaint about their comings and goings being interfered with were the slaves.
If you are willing to deny other men their freedom, don't complain about losing yours.
Then give me the old anyday.
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