Confederate Kook Still Smarts Under Civil War "Occupation" (El Rushbo Defends The Union Alert)

Rush Limbaugh.com ^ | 12/04/2006 | Rush Limbaugh

[goldstategop]

RUSH: John in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hello.

CALLER: Mr. Rush, don't you think you're being a hypocrite when you're not -- when you don't want the Iraqis to decide the problems themselves, especially since Abraham Lincoln took two -- two generals named Lincoln [sic--Grant] and Sherman who were responsible for the deaths of 59,000 southern people? And since you hate Confederate heritage that much, don't you think that we should allow the people of Iraq to decide their own fate?

RUSH: (Laughing.) Gee. I hate Confederate heritage?

CALLER: No kidding.

RUSH: On the basis of what do you say that?

CALLER: Okay, allow me to quote you from 2001: "The American Civil War was the first conflict in human history to set a people free from the bondage of slavery." Your quote, sir.

RUSH: Yeah?

CALLER: And that's not --

RUSH: Well, the point is, we fought --

CALLER: -- power --

RUSH: Are we going to have this argument, Steve?

CALLER: Yes, sir, we are, if you've got the nerve to hold it!

RUSH: I'll have this argument with you any time you want. I've been hearing from you guys since I started this show. I know, it's about states' rights, it was about freedom; it was about independence. But it was about preserving the union -- and Abraham Lincoln knew that you couldn't preserve an America with the institutions defined by our Constitution if one man was allowed to own another.

CALLER: Well, you could not preserve the Constitution as long as you could override it by military power and invasion.

RUSH: Well, there was the preservation of the union that was the number one --

CALLER: How about the preservation of the Constitution, shouldn't that be predominant?

RUSH: Look, you still want to secede? What's your solution?

CALLER: We have no choice, we're under occupation now. The thing about it is you still have to lie about Abraham Lincoln to prove your, to make your point.

RUSH: I'm not lying about Abraham Lincoln. What do you mean, you're still under occupation?

CALLER: Put it this way. The South was not allowed to vote its own way; we're not going to allow Iraq to vote its own government, either.

RUSH: But we did.

CALLER: Do you think we're really abiding by that? What they voted for, we're trying to subvert it by military occupation. No difference than what they did here for 12 years in Louisiana. You don't think we don't see that? You don't think we don't see you as a hypocrite for what you say about, oh, yeah, preserve the union, but let's never mind, let's take away the vote from those who are the voting citizens --

RUSH: I cannot believe this!

CALLER: -- Constitution!

RUSH: I can't believe this. You are taking out your frustrations at having lost the Civil War on me and claiming I'm a hypocrite because of my stance on the Iraq war?

CALLER: Yes, sir.

RUSH: Which I don't even think you know what it is.

CALLER: I don't think you know -- I don't think you know who Abraham Lincoln was.

RUSH: I certainly know who Abraham Lincoln was. He's one of the greatest presidents in the history of the country.

CALLER: Who said that --

RUSH: And it wasn't because he defeated the south. It was because he preserved the union.

CALLER: He preserved the union by trampling the Constitution!

RUSH: He did not trample the Constitution. He suspended habeas corpus. He did do some things I wish Bush would do.

CALLER: Like kill 59,000 innocent civilians?

RUSH: Are you talking about Sherman's march through Atlanta?

CALLER: And -- and -- and Grant's shelling the city of Vicksburg. Hello?

RUSH: It won the war, didn't it? You ever heard of Gettysburg? It won the war and that was the objective. I'll tell you what I wish Bush would do that Lincoln did. Take all these anti-war agitators and send 'em to Canada. Send the National Guard in there. Send Harry Reid over to Baghdad if he's going to be so socially --

CALLER: Like that Ohio Congressman Vallandigham, huh?

RUSH: Absolutely, like that Ohio congressman, that Democrat that was snatched out of his house and sent down to Jefferson Davis, who also didn't want him.

CALLER: Well, at least I got you to acknowledge that.

RUSH: Acknowledge what?

CALLER: Well, the fact that Lincoln did have his secret police who went into people's houses, pulled them out in the middle of the night, and had them -- and had them --

RUSH: You know what? I hope before you die you learn to thank God for Abraham Lincoln.

CALLER: I hope before you die you learn what a racist and a bigot and a power-hungry maniac he was.

RUSH: I'm the racist and the bigot?

CALLER: I didn't say you were. I said he was!

RUSH: Oh. Abraham Lincoln? How in the world you can call a guy who ended slavery a racist and a bigot? I have heard everything now. Everything, in 22 years of hosting this program, I have heard everything.

[fortheDeclaration]

Over 65,000 southern blacks were in the Confederate ranks. Over 13,000 saw Combat.

Of their own free will?

And how many slaves were in the South?

The South at the end of the war started giving thought to arming blacks with the promise of freedom in exchange for their service.

When the Emancipation Proclamation was issued, Jeff Davis ordered the enslavement of every black man found, freed or not.

[fortheDeclaration]

And he also stated that while he did not think the black man should be equal in social or political rights ( a view that he changed later in his life) he did believe that the black man had a right to keep the fruits of his own labour.

Something that the slave owners rejected.

[fortheDeclaration]

Killing 600,000 Americans in the process is a small price to pay for greatness.

I am glad to see that you admit that the South was in rebellion.

The deaths of so many men are to be laid not at the feet of Lincoln who was upholding the law, but those who were breaking it, the Southern slaver owners, who were more concerned about the value of their slave 'property' then they were the lives of their fellow Southerners.

[fortheDeclaration]

I could have sworn that Honest Abe sign an amendment protecting Slavery for all time. But I guess GoodWin forgot to put that in her book

You forgot to mention, where it was already legal.

Lincoln was willing to assure the slave owners that he would not break the Constitution.

It was they who rejected his offer, because he refused to compromise on why he was elected to stop the spread of slavery.

[StoneWall Brigade]

www.geocities.com/11thkentucky/blackconfed.htm

[fortheDeclaration]

I could have sworn that Honest Abe sign an amendment protecting Slavery for all time. Don't confuse people with reality...it's easier for them to stay in their 4th-grade fiction. Since that amendment didn't pass, the 13th amendment became something else entirely, and now nobody dare mention Abe's original propositions.

Oh, you guys really know the real history don't you!

Lincoln's original proposition was to keep slavery legal where it already existed (since he couldn't do anything about it anyway).

He was going to (gasp!) uphold the Constitution, the very thing you guys says he was going to destroy.

The Confederates rejected this because they wanted the right to expand slavery into the new territories unconditionally.

They even split their own Democratic Party over this, when Douglas would not go along with that view, but held out for popular sovereignty.

Now, those are the true historical facts, not the partial ones

Do you know a partial truth is the same as a lie?

[fortheDeclaration]

That caller's first mistake was in thinking Rush has anything more than a superficial knowledge of the WBTS. Lincoln is the rightful hero of all who long for executive power answerable to no one. The members of the Lincoln Brigade in the Spanish Civil War understood he was their man. As did two Lincoln admiring journalists covering the WBTS for an English paper, one K Marx and F Engels.

And the Nazi Bund had a picture of George Washington hung up in their gathering in New York at Madison Square Garden in 1938-so what.

[fortheDeclaration]

I wouldn't say "far inferior quality" since it was closer to the Constitution than actual implementation of the original in the Union.

It stated that the enslavement of the Negro could not be limited and forbidden.

It was a political document that wrote slavery in as a right and picked out one race to be enslaved.

Our Constitution never mentions a particular race to be enslaved and in fact, never even uses the word slavery.

[StoneWall Brigade]

Well i'm going to bed have a good night and may god bless billy yank (:

[fortheDeclaration]

Sure. Trample on the Constitution. The means justifies the end, right?

I see, the South has a right to violate the Constitution, but the North hasn't the right to defend it.

What is amazing is how much of the Constitution was kept intact during the war, including elections, in which the opposition peace party was allowed to campaign and win seats.

[fortheDeclaration]

The South exercised the right of secession and LEFT. Nothing more.

And that right is where in the Constitution?

I see nothing mentioned about secession.

I see a Constitution created among the people, not the states.

[fortheDeclaration]

Speak for yourself. I am a Texan FIRST.

Then you are nothing second.

[fortheDeclaration]

Since he was such a traitor, how do you reconcile his being honored by both Northern and Southern governments in terms of naming buildings, schools, and monuments for him? How do you reconcile his place in history as a revered leader by both Northen, European and Southern historians?

Because, unlike many even today, Lee said that the nation must come together again.

By the way, Lee did not believe the South had a legal right to secede.

[fortheDeclaration]

Amen to your post.

The Confederate Constitution-how noble!

A.H. Stephens, the vice President of the Confederacy, made it very clear in his 'Cornerstone speech' that the Cornerstone of the Confederacy was going to be on slavery

Ofcourse, it was not going to be just slavery that was going to be legal, but it was going to be only black slavery.

If slavery was considered legal, then it might be other whites who end up enslaved as well.

And what Southerner would support that in his 'State rights'?

[fortheDeclaration]

Yeah, Stalin was pretty effective, too...I'm sure he's a great hero of yours

Stalin was keeping people enslaved.

Lets see, who was doing that?

Oh, Jeff Davis!

It seems you confuse the use of power to end slavery with that of keeping it.

[fortheDeclaration]

"The sole object of this war is to restore the Union. Should I become convinced it has any other object or That the Government designs its soldiers to execute the wishes of the Abolitionists, I pledge you my honor as a man and a soldier I would resign my commission and carry my sword to the other side. Gen U.S. Grant

I guess he changed his mind since he remained a general after the Emancipation Proclamation was issued.

[fortheDeclaration]

Unfortunately, the end result was a monstrously huge, unconstitutional expansion of power by the central government at the expense of the states and people. And wherever government grows, freedom contracts.

Most of the the expansion of central gov't did not occur after the Civil War, it occured during the Progressive period.

What the Civil War did to is give freedom to three million people who didn't have it before.

World War 2 also expanded the role of Gov't but it had to be fought as well.

[fortheDeclaration]

Including making slavery a permanent institution. He was, and still is, I believe, the only person of power to state that he would make it permanent if it would preserve the union.

Only where it was already legal and he had no authority to end it anyway where it existed.

What the Republicans ran on was not allowing the expansion of slavery.

And this is what the Southern slave owners could not accept, hence their writing it into the Confederate Constitition as a right to bring slavery anywhere the Confederacy expanded to.

Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union and end slavery.

The South wanted neither.

[fortheDeclaration]

The Gettysburg Address was a radical shift from what our Framers had in fact believed and did in 1776. First, in America according to Lincoln, the Union was “born” in 1776. This is historical fallacy at best, and fraud at worst. In 1776, not one Union, but Thirteen separate States were created out of the formerly Thirteen English colonies. “United,” lower case in the document, the States combined their efforts to separate from England, and the Crown did eventually recognise the independence of each separate State. The Paris Peace Treaty of 1783 was not between the King and “The United States,” as a singular proper noun, rather it was between the King and the “said United States,” plural, naming each of the Thirteen states making it abundantly clear that the King did not view the various States as a nation, and neither did they. The several states, united, had, under God’s Providence, through war, achieved “the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitles them.”

Not one of those states operated as a separate nation and was every recognized by another nation as such.

The Colonies became States of the United States.

The Articles of Confederation were scraped to form a more perfect Union.

The States became more bound after the Constitution, but were never separate nations and never acted as such.

[fortheDeclaration]

That was taxation without representation.

The South had representation, in fact, over representation with the 3/5 rule.

Lincoln did not maneuver anyone to fire on Fort Sumter.

The South thought they could get away with anything, as they had with Buchanan.

They met their match in Lincoln.