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Confederacy of the determined - (Southern heritage buffs vow "Confederate History Month")
WASHINGTON TIMES.COM ^ | APRIL 24, 2005 | Christina Bellantoni

Posted on 04/24/2005 6:08:20 PM PDT by CHARLITE

Southern heritage buffs vow to use the Virginia gubernatorial election as a platform for designating April as Confederate History and Heritage Month.

The four candidates have differing views on the Confederacy, an issue that has been debated for years in the commonwealth.

"We're not just a few people making a lot of noise," said Brag Bowling, a spokesman for the Sons of Confederate Veterans, the oldest hereditary organization for male descendents of Confederate soldiers. "This is not a racial thing; it is good for Virginia. We're going to keep pushing this until we get it."

Each candidate recently shared his thoughts on what Mr. Bowling called a "litmus test for all politicians." Lt. Gov. Timothy M. Kaine would not support a Confederate History and Heritage Month. Former state Attorney General Jerry W. Kilgore would support something that recognizes everyone who lived during the Civil War.

Sen. H. Russell Potts Jr. and Warrenton Mayor George B. Fitch would support a Confederate History and Heritage Month. Many past Virginia governors honored the Civil War or the Confederacy.

In 1990, former Gov. L. Douglas Wilder, the nation's first black governor, a Democrat and a grandson of slaves, issued a proclamation praising both sides of the war and remembering "those who sacrificed in this great struggle."

Former Govs. George Allen and James S. Gilmore III, both Republicans, issued Confederate History Month proclamations. In 2000, Mr. Gilmore replaced that proclamation with one commemorating both sides of the Civil War -- a move that enraged the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

Gov. Mark Warner, a Democrat, has refused to issue a gubernatorial decree on either side of the Civil War.

Mr. Kaine, another Democrat, would decline to issue a Confederate History and Heritage Month proclamation if he is elected governor, said his campaign spokeswoman, Delacey Skinner.

(Excerpt) Read more at insider.washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: 1865victory; abe; abelincoln; acknowledgment; bowling; campaign; civilwar; confederacy; confederatecrumbs; confederatehistory; confedernuts; confederwackos; cottonpickers; damnyankee; defeateddixie; dixie; dixiechixsrot; dixielast; dixielost; dixieslaves; dixieslavetraders; dixiesmells; dixiestinks; dixietrash; dixietrolls; dixiewankers; dixiexrates; flaggots; georgeallen; governors; honestabe; honoring; horsecrap; issue; jerrykilgore; kaine; kkknuts; klanthread; konfederate; koolaid; lincolnattackers; longlivetheunion; losers; markwarner; neoconfederate; nomoredixie; nonothings; pickettscharge; platationthread; politics; proclamation; reconstruction; roberteredneck; scv; segrigation; slaves; southernrabble; southernrats; southernslavers; southernwhine; southwhere; tallabe; traitors; unionfirst; unionistheone; unionists; unionvictory; victory; virginia; wardead; washington; yankeesforever; yankeeslavetraders; yankeez
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To: M. Espinola
Irrefutable and absolutely right, point-by-undeniable-point.

The rancor, rage, semi-denials, and goalpost movings--undertaken in a vain attempt to refute it--will commence shortly, I suspect.

Odd that the truth would inflame some so in such a manner; but it always seems to, regardless, in these threads.

And very telling it is, that.

821 posted on 05/04/2005 3:54:42 AM PDT by A Jovial Cad ("A man's character is his fate." -Heraclitus)
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To: TexConfederate1861
Friend, you know the ongoing battles which must look like a soap opera, or a mad house to those wandering in by mistake.

The day in question was a 'normal' one, Stand had called me every usual name in the book. I fired broadsides in his direction but not even close to his incoming mail. Those post should still be on here.

On my part humour was attempted, posting non-related threads to speak on different subjects, but nothing worked.

Like clock work, myself & others we blamed for 'murdering' his distant relatives during the Civil War, well that was the last straw and I told him to clam up or cool off, whatever, and since he was going on and on about Indians as well, I said 'clam up or cool off Tonto' The he exploded like an A-bomb.

If he is willing to call it a draw, I am as well. Both can parties can apology. That is no problem on my end. It takes two to tango lol

I am glad you are willing to referee on this situation.

822 posted on 05/04/2005 4:33:55 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: A Jovial Cad
It's all true what you stated but things have reached a very heated level, unnecessarily so, but nevertheless a cooling off is required.

I am willing to attempt to reduce the current levels of tension, if Stand is.

Be back later on.

823 posted on 05/04/2005 4:43:59 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: M. Espinola; Non-Sequitur; capitan_refugio; x
Amen to your post.

Just finishing reading The Counter-Revolution of Slavery, politics and Ideology in Antebellium South Carolina by Manisha Sinha.

The book lays out the intention of the Southern slave owners to create a slave republic, South Carolina leading the way.

Here is a sample of what is in the book,

J.H. Thornwell, writing in the midst of southern reverses during the Civil War that he explained as God's trial of southern faith and punishment of pride, lamented at the prospect of defeat, "The civilized world will look coldly upon us, or even jeer us with the taunt that we deservedly lost our freedom in seeking to perpeturate the slavery of others."(p.258)....As Armstead Robinson has argued, "A war fought to protect slavery ended in its destruction and slaves whose permanent servitude was to the Confederacy's triumphant reward helped deny slaveholders the fullfillment of their most cherished dream.(p.257)

The very essence of the slave republic (the Confederacy), was racism in its most virulent form.

824 posted on 05/04/2005 4:47:47 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: stand watie
TRUE! the killing of lincoln was an ACT of WAR & as LEGITIMATE as killing Saddam Hussein IS. lincoln was the CIC of union troops & thus a COMBATANT. J.W. Booth was a SGT in the VA militia, so what he did was also legitimate, as an act of war.

The war was over, Lee had surrendered and Johnston was about to do so to Sherman.

Lincoln had already visited the U.S. city of Richmond.

What Booth did was murder, pure and simple.

825 posted on 05/04/2005 4:51:00 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: stand watie
Lincoln was a great man, he held the Union together despite overwhelming odds against doing so.

He destroyed the slave republic of the Confederacy, what would have been the first facist state.

826 posted on 05/04/2005 4:52:20 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: TexConfederate1861
As of Dec 1860, South Carolina was NOT in the Union.

The events of 1865 say otherwise.

827 posted on 05/04/2005 4:53:01 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: TexConfederate1861
OK..then I think Lincoln was killed for being a Dictator & Usurping the Constitution.

Well, he was murdered because he defeated the slave republic of the confederacy and you guys are still upset that you can't have anymore slaves.

Your True colors are showing.

My colors are red, white and blue.

I have a country that I love, not a lost cause to weep over (no more slaves, no more slaves-it would have been such a wonderful slave republic if only those damn Yankees hadn't spoiled it all!)

828 posted on 05/04/2005 4:56:31 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: MacDorcha
The North did not ínvade'the South." Oh, OK. Now that we got it clear that the South (outside of US borders at the time) was an "armed insurrection" let me ask this: did they seceed, or didn't they? They didn't ask for a bloody war to gain independence, but they got one that took it from them.

They attempted to secede but failed.

They were attempting to form a slave republic and were defeated before they could do so.

The world was much better because of it.

829 posted on 05/04/2005 4:59:28 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: MacDorcha
Thus the Kennesaw issue is totally irrevelant to the discussion of gun control laws being put into place to keep guns out of the hands of blacks. " And this statement is irrelevant to the posts between this one and the first one involving "gun control" I responded to your claims about gun-control. Had your state been "superior morally" they would have inacted such a law durring the reconstruction.

The fact is the first gun control laws were in the South.

Thus, the myth that the South is a baston of freedom is just that, a myth.

The South only recently (after having to give up Jim Crow) has become Republican not Democratic and thus, has become freedom oriented.

Kennesaw has nothing to do with the issue of the first gun control laws, or the fact that the post Civil War South, restricted Blacks from being armed.

Stop throwing dust in the air, it doesn't change the facts

830 posted on 05/04/2005 5:04:55 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: MacDorcha
By the way, the gun control laws of the South were struck down as being unconstitutional, but being clever Democrats, they just would not allow any cheap firearm to be kept, effectively disarming Blacks.
831 posted on 05/04/2005 5:07:33 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: MacDorcha
No, I think the Confederate gov't should have been tried for treason, not murdered." THERE'S a liberal response if there ever was one! "He was our enemy, he killed our leader. Don't shoot him, heavens no! Try him in the court of law!"

I was talking about the slave republic goverment officals, who should have been tried for treason.

Booth should have been tried (if caught) for murder.

832 posted on 05/04/2005 5:09:45 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: MacDorcha
The scripture is very clear on this.

Making a man to work for you (with the lash, and other tortue devices) and giving him just enough to live on, would in any normal persons thinking be considered theft.

You are stealing the man's labor.

Moreover, by threatening his life and forcing him to stay where he does not want to be, you are doing harm to him, which the Bible says we ought not to do (Rom.13).

Now, your arguments are the same double-talking lies that the slave republic attempted to justify its enslavement of 3million people.

Do you think you have the right (scripturally) to enslave anyone now?

If you kidnapped someone and put him your home and made him work for you and gave him room and board, would any court in the land not say you owe him for the labor he did not receive wages for?

Take your evil insanity somewhere else.

833 posted on 05/04/2005 5:16:58 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Gal.4:16)
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To: M. Espinola
One of many incredible quotes from '4ConservativeJustices': "Slavery was LEGAL while they were in the Union, and Lincoln advocating making slavery PERMANENT."

What's so incredible about that? It's TRUE. Do you assert that slavery was ILLEGAL under the US Constitution at it's inception? Do you deny that Lincoln advocated passage of a (still outstanding) Amendment that would have guaranteed permanent slavery?

Stand's very own tag-line "(being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)" is a rather bigoted declaration since it attacks the overwhelming majority of Americans.

Reading comprehension problems? Neither stand nor I have any problem with "Yankees", I have numerous friends that are yankees. What his tagline refers to are those that ignore the log in their own eye to point out the mote in ours. Known as hypocrites who relish telling Southerners just how wrong they were/are, that we have no place honouring our ancestors, or that flying the flag that they fought for freedom under is a 'rag' never to be flown.

We're an independent bunch, and resent folks like you stepping in, dancing on the graves of our noble dead, calling us and them traitors, and admonishing us for not worshiping your war criminals. I honour US Gen. McClellan - he was a decent and kind man - with him in charge the animosities remaining today would be long gone. I have no problem with the vast majority of Union soldiers, they did what they believed to be just, but I will never share in your worship of men who waged war on innocent men, women and children, nor will I ever admire a man that destroyed the voluntary union, that ordered the death of Jefferson Davis , his cabinet, and of the inhabitants of Richmond.

'Stand watie' and '4ConservativeJustices' do either one of you support the above statement from the number two man?

No. For the zillionith time, I believe that GOD created the heavens and the earth, not billions of years ago, but THOUSANDS of years ago. I have no problem believing that a God that can create the universe and mankind, and could do so INSTANTLY, and not need billions of years of evolution to do so.

I believe the Holy Word of GOD to be true and correct when He proclaimed everything to be 'good' (no death, no billions of years of evolution and little ape men rising from slime). I believe the Word of God when He states that He created man in HIS image, and that God created woman (Eve) from Adam.

I do not believe the blacks are descendants of Ham/Canaan or of some curse, nor are they creations of some alleged other creation (see #3fruitcakes old posts).

I've said it before on these threads and I say it again, we are all one blood, descendants of Adam and Eve, brothers and sisters in the eyes of God. And among those brothers and sisters - besides whites and blacks - are Arabic peoples, Asians/Orientals and Native Americans.

Now you, obviously NOT of Native American ancestry, can find no fault with your slur "Tonto", and you trot off to find a tribe named Tonto to smooth things over. Apaches are not Cherokees, so your calling sw 'Tonto' can only be construed as you intended it - a slur on his ethnicity.

834 posted on 05/04/2005 5:46:32 AM PDT by 4CJ (Good-bye Henry LeeII. Rest well my FRiend. || Quoting Lincoln OR JimRob is a bannable offense.)
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To: TexConfederate1861
actually, the story of the sub was published in the Galveston (TX) newspaper at the time.

i know ZILCH about that subject (as i told several people at the time i posted it!) other than what the newspaper printed.

free dixie,sw

835 posted on 05/04/2005 7:26:45 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
WHEN are you going to ADMIT what the contents of your "removed by admin mod" comment #645 was? and that it was a RACIST comment? and that you're SORRY for making it?

CONFESSION of your RACIST opinions would make you look like a BIGGER person, if not a BETTER one.

free dixie,sw

836 posted on 05/04/2005 7:31:44 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: fortheDeclaration
i have no problem with what you said in #826,IF you put at the beginning of the post the following words:

In my opinion, (opinions are like bellybuttons, as everyone has one!)

like all too many others on FR, you have a habit of "making pronouncements" which are NOT factual & are backed-up by NOTHING except more blather & then expecting everyone to accept those UNsupported opinions as FACT.

free dixie,sw

837 posted on 05/04/2005 7:40:52 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
actually, #645 was MUCH MORE than the "tonto comment". it was OBVIOUSLY intended to be a slur against American Indians & our shared religious & cultural traditions.

IF the "admin mod" had not deleted #645, ALL could see just how RACIST m.eSPINola's attitudes ARE.

as i've said many times, "scratch a damnyankee & racist blood will flow from their veins".

the VAST MAJORITRY of northerners are NOT damnyankees, as they hate nobody, much less the south & her people. i would GUESS that DAMNyankees comprise no more than 10% of the northern population.

DAMNyankees are HATERS, who are FUNCTIONALLY no better than racists. IF they did NOT HATE the south/southerners so much,imVho, they would be some other kind of BIGOT.

free dixie,sw

838 posted on 05/04/2005 7:54:32 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
you may "call it a draw", AFTER you ADMIT just how RACIST your comment #645 WAS & that you are SORRY for making such a RACIST comment.

otherwise, don't assume anyone (least of all, me! RACISTS have NO PLACE on FR!)here will forgive/forget.

free dixie,sw

839 posted on 05/04/2005 8:12:49 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: stand watie
I don't remember what the rest of it was, M.E could easily repost the comment from his history if he so desired.

He's probably also ignorant of the Spanish (directed towards Apaches) meaning of the word 'tonto ' - FOOL.

From http://www.bluecorncomics.com/tonto.htm

Here's a Native view of Tonto. As you can see, it's hardly benign:

Tonto was everything that the white man had always wanted the Indian to be. He was a little slower, a little dumber, had much less vocabulary, and rode a darker horse.

Somehow Tonto was always there. Like the Negro butler and the Oriental gardener. Tonto represented a silent, subservient subspecies of Anglo-Saxon whose duty was to do the bidding of the all-wise white hero.

Vine Deloria Jr. (Standing Rock Sioux), Custer Died for Your Sins


840 posted on 05/04/2005 8:24:05 AM PDT by 4CJ (Good-bye Henry LeeII. Rest well my FRiend. || Quoting Lincoln OR JimRob is a bannable offense.)
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