Posted on 07/26/2021 4:33:01 PM PDT by ammodotcom
The Battle of Appomattox Courthouse is considered by many historians the end of the Civil War and the start of post-Civil War America. The events of General Robert E. Lee’s surrender to General and future President Ulysses S. Grant at a small town courthouse in Central Virginia put into effect much of what was to follow.
The surrender at Appomattox Courthouse was about reconciliation, healing, and restoring the Union. While the Radical Republicans had their mercifully brief time in the sun rubbing defeated Dixie’s nose in it, they represented the bleeding edge of Northern radicalism that wanted to punish the South, not reintegrate it into the Union as an equal partner.
The sentiment of actual Civil War veterans is far removed from the attitude of the far left in America today. Modern day “woke-Americans” clamor for the removal of Confederate statues in the South, the lion’s share of which were erected while Civil War veterans were still alive. There was little objection to these statues at the time because it was considered an important part of the national reconciliation to allow the defeated South to honor its wartime dead and because there is a longstanding tradition of memorializing defeated foes in honor cultures.
(Excerpt) Read more at ammo.com ...
“ You somehow believe that the North could buy nearly 3/4ths of the imports without explaining how it is possible to buy these things with only 28% of the money.”
Yet you claim the North took 60% of the profits from Southern production. How do all these numbers add up?
This line reminds me of the "Build your own facebook" and build your own twitter" advocates around here.
It goes further. Some even go so far as to say "build your own internet, and build your own banking and finance infrastructure" to stop being deplatformed and denied banking and credit card services.
How do you feel about conservatives being excluded from prominent internet platforms such as face book and twitter as well as being denied credit card and banking services by dominant suppliers?
Before you go on about the North raping the South financially, is it your contention that in the 1930s when virtually all automotive production came out of just a few states near the Great Lakes, that all profits from shipping, selling, repairing, and so on of cars across the country raped Michigan and Indiana?
Because that’s what you’re claiming happened in the antebellum period. You cannot seem to fathom the idea that bankers making loans, shipping companies moving product, warehousing firms holding product, and manufacturers using Southern Cotton to produce finished goods could do so in the course of normal capitalist activities. In fact I’m beginning to think you’re not a capitalist at all.
Why don’t you go to the other thread where I cite numerous examples of Southern shipping concerns? Are you afraid?
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3979429/posts?page=1019#1019
I see you ARE in the thread. I apologize. You just won’t respond to the information I posted that’s all.
“ How do you feel about conservatives being excluded from prominent internet platforms such as face book and twitter as well as being denied credit card and banking services by dominant suppliers? ”
Since that situation never happened in the antebellum South as it concerns shipping, it’s a relevant to this conversation.
I got that number from a source BroJoeK linked me to a couple of years ago. I can go back through old messages and find it again, or perhaps BroJoeK remembers where that was?
But it's not so hard to grasp when you consider all the taxes on imports combined with the gouging they did with shipping, banking, warehousing, insurance and so forth.
I think you finally grasp the fact that New York controlled the cotton business and all other southern exports as well.
We are making progress.
You still ignore my earlier posts. There was no gouging. Southerners were heavily involved in the cotton factorage system. Families got rich off shipping. New Orleans will full of shipbuilders. Read what I have posted and open your eyes!
Maybe you’re a secret Muslim. Is that why you’re opposed to earning interest on money loaned? There has to be a reason for your anti-capitalist views.
Well to understand that, you would have to tell me what percentages of the profits went where. Certainly if 75% of the profits from the production of Michigan and Indiana went to New Orleans, then yes, I would have to say that somehow New Orleans was raping Michigan and Indiana.
Was that what was happening?
Because that’s what you’re claiming happened in the antebellum period. You cannot seem to fathom the idea that bankers making loans, shipping companies moving product, warehousing firms holding product, and manufacturers using Southern Cotton to produce finished goods could do so in the course of normal capitalist activities.
Are you familiar with Hollywood accounting practices? That would save us both a lot of time if you are.
Very much in favor of Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman capitalism, but very much against crony capitalist capitalism. You know, the kind that Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Eisenhower warned us against?
“ Certainly if 75% of the profits from the production of Michigan and Indiana went to New Orleans, then yes, I would have to say that somehow New Orleans was raping Michigan and Indiana.”
You keep using that phrase “profits from the production.” The auto manufacturers keep 100% of the profits from manufacturing cars, and all the losses too. That’s why there used to be dozens and dozens of car companies but only a handful left today.
By the same token Southern planters retained 100% of the profits of their production as well. Other business people, including Southern factor houses and shippers, made their profit off services rendered once the crop left the plantation. You seem to have a tenuous grasp on the realities of the distribution chain.
Your examples seem to me to be similar in nature to the examples of Northern troops writing home about their burning desire to fight to end slavery in the South;They don't give an accurate view of the larger picture and are simply cherry picked precisely because they support a position.
It may be possible that your examples are representative, but it would require a lot of work to determine if this is correct or not, and I do not have the time or inclination to go to this much trouble to see.
Also it conflicts with information I recall from other sources.
Just got back to the thread and I have limited time. When I catch a break from real world responsibilities, I grab 30 minutes or an hour when I can.
You are simply asserting it never happened. Liberals of the future will assert that deplatforming and denial of banking services "never happened."
You do not grasp that you may be buying into the propaganda of the past, even though you can recognize what is happening in the present.
I think I see the past and present differently from you. I believe humans never change, and were just as willing to lie and deceive in the past as they are right now, and were motivated in the past by money and power, just as they are right now.
You say that with the certainty of someone who knows the absolute truth rather than as someone who has to piece it together from what information can be found.
I always mark certainty as a sign that people aren't being objective. Indeed, some people don't even know how to be objective.
Southerners were heavily involved in the cotton factorage system. Families got rich off shipping.
No doubt this is true, but does not disprove the point that New Yorkers were getting even richer while contributing less than the producers.
New Orleans will full of shipbuilders.
Not the oceangoing cargo ships. Riverboats and perhaps packet ships, but nothing that directly traded with the dominant trade partners. They built only ships that left New York dominating control of the trade.
How did you get "you're opposed to interest on money loaned" from anything I said?
I'm certainly opposed to usury, but i'm not opposed to ordinary and reasonable interest in a voluntary exchange.
There has to be a reason for your anti-capitalist views.
*YOU* assert my views are "anti-capitalist", when my views are in fact anti-fascist, with fascism being defined as collusion between government power and powerful business interests.
Free market capitalism is the optimal form of economics, and I am not arguing against it. I am arguing that what they were dealing with was not free market economics, but collusion between government and industry to favor those who had influence on the government.
This map tells a different story.
You seem to have a tenuous grasp on the realities of the distribution chain.
You at least finally grasp that New York controlled Southern production and export trade. But now you are saying "all this is normal and just great!"
At least we are making progress on you realizing who was in the driver's seat. Perhaps you will began to see who would lose money with secession and who would gain money with secession.
Yeah well I’m digging a trench fit a retaining wall with a pick and a shovel. My breaks last about five minutes. Hence my error regarding threads.
“Also it conflicts with information I recall from other sources.”
You mean like the other poster you linked? Real authoritative. I think your sentence that I quoted above says it all. Any fact that is in disagreement with your fantasy view of the antebellum South is simply rejected out of hand.
“You do not grasp that you may be buying into the propaganda of the past, even though you can recognize what is happening in the present.”
You do not grasp that you HAVE but into the propaganda of the past. It’s a story that started around 1865. It’s called The Lost Cause. it’s only kept alive by a small cadre of Neo-Confederates such as yourself.
“I think I see the past and present differently from you. I believe humans never change, and were just as willing to lie and deceive in the past as they are right now, and were motivated in the past by money and power, just as they are right now.”
I think that way too. And you’re a prime example of someone who is willing to lie and deceive about the past.
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