Posted on 08/12/2019 7:35:28 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT
Toyota, Ford plan to keep hybrids as core part of their lineups, showing split in auto industry
“If I had a dollar more to invest, would I spend it on a hybrid? Or would I spend it on the answer that we all know is going to happen, and get there faster and better than anybody else?” GM President Mark Reuss
Last week, Continental AG , one of the world’s biggest car-parts makers, said it would cut investment in conventional engine parts because of a faster-than-expected fall in demand—yet another sign the industry is accelerating the shift to electric vehicles.
Today, auto companies generally lose money on each electric car they sell, mostly because of the high cost of lithium-ion batteries.
VW and GM are focused on all-electric cars largely because of China, where new regulations require car companies to sell a minimum number of zero-emissions vehicles to avoid financial penalties.
or now, both hybrids and electric cars are more expensive to produce than comparable gas-powered vehicles. A hybrid system can add roughly $2,000 to a vehicle’s cost, while a fully electric version is an additional $6,000 to $10,000
(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...
The “Gain” in hybrids is real.. If it wasn’t you wouldn’t see every large transport vehicle using them. Trains have been using Deisel electric hybrids for decades.. and its why they can a ton of freight for pennies a mile. (that at rolling resistance on rails is very very low.)
However, for car driving, the main gain in hybrid comes from the simple fact, the engine isn’t idling when the car isn’t moving. There is also a very real gain on direct drive electric motors vs all the mechanical linkages trying to transfer mechanical energy in different directions that happen in a standard drive train.
My typical commute is at least 10-15 minutes in a stopped state. If my engine was not idling during that time, I am sure my MPG would go way up.
If you simply made a care with the golf cart design, where the engine shut off when it came to a stop and auto started when you applied the gas.. you’d notice a MPG improvement for city commuters as well. It WOULDN’T gain you as much as a hybrid, because it is more efficient to drive a direct drive electric motor vs the classic mechanical engine.
It doesn’t break the laws of thermodynamics... An electric motor has far more ability to provide torque and variable speed directly to the wheelsremoves the need for transmissions and other linkages, that ALL cause you to lose energy.
Direct electric drive is far more efficient, so you don’t violate the laws of thermodynamics by having a generator power electric motors directly vs the typical combustion engine driving shafts, gears etc.
Sorry, but if you run the math, generators connected to electric motors are indeed more efficient than a standard mechanical drive train... you aren’t violating the laws of thermodynamics.
Auto makers know what sells in the US , Canada etc ,Pickup and SUVs so let China drown in Electric Cars
“Toyota warranties the battery in my wife’s Prius for EIGHT YEARS/ 1OOK MILES.”
Ok, and how much is it to replace the batteries on your 8 year old car?
I keep my cars 10 years or more, and have no concern about replacing the one battery for about $70.
Sorry but his MATH is way off, he saved about 13,700 gallons getting 52 MPG vs 25 MPG on 660k.
82,500/13,700 =more than $6 He’d have to have been paying $6 a gallon to save the kind of money he is claiming... and while the average price of gas today is $3 in 2000, it was $1.51... it has spiked briefly to 4 during that time but the average cost of gas over the last 20 years has not been $3.
I have nothing against Hybrids, or electrics, but this guys math is WAY WAY OFF... It’s broken down in my original post.
I totally enjoy driving my wife’s Prius V.
And we have driven Suburbans and Expeditions forever.
No, I can’t sleep on the seat like the Sub, but costs half as much and gets twice the mileage.
I hate to spoil things for you... we have several friends who love their Prius cars, but they make me laugh when they start talking about all the money that they have “saved”. Our friend Dave is an example... he is retired and doesn't get out of the house much because he is severely obese. But he leases a new Prius every three years.
He was excitedly telling me how leasing new Prius cars was the best “investment” that he has ever made. Then he told me that he had just taken his two year old Prius to the dealer for its 6,000 mile check up and it didn't need a thing done to it!
Dave is in his 80s, so I don't bother trying to quiz him on what his definition of what an investment is and mention how most other people don't consider renting a new car to be an investment. I also don't mention that at $3 a gallon a car that gets 25mpg would use only $720 of gas, so in two years his fuel “savings” might have been up to about $200 a year if he was lucky. Even if he drove 15,000 miles a year, the amount of money he would “save” compared to an equivalent non-hybrid car would not make up for the difference for the higher lease payments over the 3 year agreement. And if Dave drove more than 12,000 miles a year he would be required to pay a 20 cents a mile penalty at the end of his lease agreement. For Dave a leased Prius lease never really pencils out. But for Dave none of that really matters... it's all about “virtue signaling” here in liberal Western Washington.
It takes five to seven years for the typical hybrid owner to break as compared to purchasing the same non-hybrid car depending on the price of gas and the amount of miles that they drive. And a new car is always one of the worst investments that anyone can ever make.
Personally we drive an 18 year old Astro Van that we bought used for $4000 several years ago. It still looks good and is going strong with 180,000 miles on it. It tows our small trailers and since it has AWD it sits a little higher and we don't feel like the 4WD pickups are going to drive over the tops of us on the freeway. It is also very comfortable drives up the steep hill to our house when it snows and has additional passenger seats that we can take in and out. It is cheap to insure. We could easily still get $2000 for it any day of the week. But I will admit that a trip to the gas station is more annoying than it is for you.
How do you figure 13,700? I just took 660,000 and divided by 25 (his free additional mileage and I get 26,400 miles. Am I looking at the problem wrong?
Good on ya!
Whenever I see “claims” and math involved together, I generally run the numbers.
This person is fool of poo. I came up with the same numbers.
“All-electric may work in urban areas with density, but not in the vast majority of this nation.”
The vast majority of driving is done in urban areas.
Roughly 80 percent of Americans live in urban areas, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.
what needs to happen is to be able to swap out the battery for a freshly recharged pack. Like you do with a propane tank now, instead of taking it for a refill. A five minute refueling v. a half hour or more.
Doing my part: 12-19 mpg in my 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee HEMI V8.
National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation comes to mind where Clark gets all of the lights running.
The Great California Mileage Con
Four car companies cut a sweetheart deal with Sacramento.
In its waning days the Obama Administration rolled through a mandatory midterm review and reaffirmed the 2012 rules requiring auto makers to average 54 miles a gallon by 2025.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-great-california-mileage-con-11565554494
I bought my wife a KIA 2019 hybrid NIRO (PHEV). it combines the advantages of gasoline and electricity. It is awesome!!!
Oops, never mind. You are correct. I see what I did was wrong. He saved about 26400 - 12692 = 13708 gallons.
At even 4 dollars a gallon that is just over 50k. So he is either paying the highest priced gas in the country or his savings are inflated.
Oops, never mind. You are correct. I see what I did was wrong. He saved about 26400 - 12692 = 13708 gallons.
At even 4 dollars a gallon that is just over 50k. So he is either paying the highest priced gas in the country or his savings are inflated
59 mpg with a bigger tank and better stuff on and in the car.
NICE!
My wife’s Privus V gets just over 50 mpg when I drive, but a bit less than 50 when she drives.
Lead foot!
Wow... Mach 3.5
The operative word here is “power.” No, not power to operate your auto, but POWER to the regulators and enviros who want to DICTATE to you how you are to live and move within this country. So far it appears the dumbed down populace hasn’t realized it. Revisit the tale of frog in the pot on the stove if you don’t get my meaning. But you know that alread - it’s in your screen name!
"This 270,000-pound (122,470-kg) locomotive is designed to tow passenger-train cars at speeds of up to 110 miles per hour (177 kph). The diesel engine makes 3,200 horsepower, and the generator can turn this into almost 4,700 amps of electrical current. The four drive motors use this electricity to generate over 64,000 pounds of thrust. There is a completely separate V-12 engine and generator to provide electrical power for the rest of the train. This generator is called the head-end power unit. The one on this train can make over 560 kilowatts (kW) of electrical power."
https://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/engines-equipment/diesel-locomotive.htm
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