Can You Dig It? More Evidence Suggests Humans From The Ice Age

Montana Public Radio ^ | 2-28-2015 | GREG ALLEN

[Citizen Zed]

In Florida, archaeologists are investigating a site that a century ago sparked a scientific controversy. Today, it's just a strip of land near an airport.

But in 1915, it was a spot that became world-famous because of the work of Elias Sellards, Florida's state geologist. Sellards led a scientific excavation of the site, where workers digging a drainage canal found fossilized animal bones and then, human remains.

Andy Hemmings of Mercyhurst University is the lead archaeologist on a project that has picked up where Sellards left off a century ago.

"Quite literally, where we're standing, they found what they, at the time, dubbed 'skeleton two' and 'skeleton three.' It turns out it's actually one individual, now known as Vero Man," Hemmings says.

The human remains were in a layer of soil that also contained bones from animals that lived in Florida during the Ice Age: mastodons, giant sloths and saber-toothed cats.

Sellards said this was proof that people lived in Florida during the Ice Age, at least 14,000 years ago. At the time, most scientists believed humans had been in the New World no longer than 6,000 years.

An anthropologist from the Smithsonian, Ales Hrdlicka, led the charge attacking Sellards' findings. Hrdlicka believed the human remains were of someone who lived much later and had been buried in the lower strata. Vero Man was discredited and became largely an archaeological footnote.

But in Vero Beach, Fla., a quiet community known mostly for its citrus groves, Sandra Rawls says the site of Sellards' investigation, and its potential, was never forgotten. Several years ago, Rawls and others in the community formed a nonprofit group, the Old Vero Ice Age Sites Committee, or OVIASC.

[SunkenCiv]

I like America Unearthed, its host Scott Wolter seems blissfully unaware of any work done on some of the artifacts. Most recently I watched the episode about those lead crosses in the caliche’, which were examined in the 1970s by Barry Fell. Fell’s conclusion (it’s around here somewhere, in a written reply he very kindly sent) was that the “Latin” (he also put it in quotes) was made up of snippets of the Latin mottos (including the abbreviations) of various noble families of Europe, and translated into gibberish. Clearly they are some kookiness, even if not a hoax.

[Vaquero]

I saw Wolter on a show that predated his AU show. He was asked to use his geological knowledge and he did a good job without all the mumbo jumbo. Once they gave him his own show, he saw dollar signs and jumped multiple sharks.

[ZULU]

Clovis first, rest in peace.

[BCW]

yes — this was it...I though I drank too much coffee...thanks for posting...

[Bernard Marx]

He was asked to use his geological knowledge and he did a good job without all the mumbo jumbo.

There's a near-infinity of difference between the disciplines of geologist, archaeologist and paleontologist. Apparently Wolter doesn't know that or doesn't care -- dollar signs as you say. The show's unwatchable.

[blam]

No.

[blam]

Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida)

DNA Of The Windover Bog People

[Candor7]

Yeah, the Yankees were going down there in the very early years of the franchise... :-)

[Vaquero]

Now they dig for archaeological gold in Steinbrenner Field and hit dingers into Lake George. ; )~

[Vaquero]

There's a near-infinity of difference between the disciplines of geologist, archaeologist and paleontologist. Apparently Wolter doesn't know that or doesn't care — dollar signs as you say. The show’s unwatchable

The show is pretty bad. But different disciplines can and and do work together. Luis and Walter Alverez were a physicist and geologist whose research in iridium in the K-Pg (K-T) boundary set the paleontology world on end with their asteroid apocalypse theory. Though not all buy into that theory either.

[SunkenCiv]

History Channel screws up a lot of these shows IMHO — the one about the search for precolumbian giants (which would normally get my ‘uh-boy’ award) clearly gets pulled this way and that by the producers. Obviously they should take a uniform approach to these sites, but they don’t, in order I guess to keep viewers from tuning out. So, when they should be using ground penetrating radar, instead they drill a hole that, best case scenario, will tell them nothing.

[Bernard Marx]

But different disciplines can and and do work together.

Absolutely. I think greater cross-fertilization between disciplines is very necessary. For many years each one had tunnel vision and the result was something like the tale of blind men describing an elephant from only the part he could feel: the tail, the trunk, the leg etc. We're seeing more cross-discipline communication these days and I think it's great.

My comment about Wolter was simply that a geologist has serious limitations in explaining the types of things he takes on.

[ThanhPhero]

Continental shelf archaeology would change totally what we think of the antiquity and types of Americans pre 1492, I think.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

We’ve been in an ice age for 3 million years. The last glaciation ended about 10-11,000 years ago and may not have reached Florida.

[SunkenCiv]

the three recent topics, in a re-bump to an old Precolumbian Florida topic:

• Unprecedented 7,000-Year-Old Native American Burial Site Found Near Venice [2018]
• "Unprecedented" Native American Burial Site Discovered In Gulf Of Mexico Off Florida [2018]
• Off Florida Coast, an 'Unprecedented' 7,000-Year-Old Burial Site Discovery [2018]

and some Great Lakes stuff:

• Kenosha Dig Points to Europe as Origin of First Americans [2002]

  ---

• Research Casts New Light On History Of North America [2008]
• First Humans To Settle Americas Came From Europe, Not From Asia Over Bering Strait [2008]

  ---

• Underwater Archaeologists Find Possible Mastodon Carving On Lake Michigan Rock [2007]
• Stonehenge Beneath the Waters of Lake Michigan [2009]
• Stonehenge in Lake Michigan?(Potentially pre-historic stone formation discovered deep underwater) [2009]
• Origins of underwater stones a mystery [2009]
• Archeological evidence of human activity found beneath Lake Huron [2009]
• Ancient Caribou hunting site found underneath Lake Huron [2014]

NAGPRA keyword, newest to oldest:

• Rep. Gosar Questions BLM Director on Antiquities Act Abuse [2016]
• Oldest DNA ever found sheds light on humans' global trek [2014]
• Archaeology as a vital US strategic interest [2014]
• 24,000-Year-Old Body Is Kin to Both Europeans and American Indians [2013]
• D.N.A. Backs Lore on Pre-Columbian Dogs [2013]
• Native Native American dogs [2013]
• Native Americans and Northern Europeans Paleolithic Cousins [2012]
• Calls made to repatriate Beothuk remains [2012]
• Who Owns the Past? The federal government should fix or drop new regulations that throttle scient... [2012]
• Legislation forces archaeologists to rebury finds [2011]
• Old dog, new tricks: Study IDs 9,400-year-old mutt [2011]
• Could Change Be Opportunity For Jim Thorpe, Pa? [2010]
• Scientists in bone battle [2009]
• Montauk Monster, Washes Ashore,Truth or Hoax? [2008]
• Will Work At Allendale County Archaeological Dig (Topper) Rewrite Human History? [2008]
• Pete Stark on Gay Marriage Decision: 'I wonder what they're going to do with the Mormons. [2008]
• Iceman's DNA Linked To Coastal Aboriginals (Canada) [2008]
• Scientists Tantalize With 'Iceman' Findings (Canada) [2008]
• Americas Settled 15,000 Years Ago, Study Says [2008]
• Archaeologist Explains Link Between Bones Found In Ethiopia, Texas [2007]
• Freep a Poll! (Ok for Lakota tribe to secede from US?) [2007]
• Next Kennewick Man Will Need Protection [2007]
• Before Columbus... [2007]
• Senate Bill Could Untie Kennewick Man Bones [2007]
• Why the skeleton found in the La Brea Tar Pits feels so familiar [ La Brea Woman ] [2007]
• First Americans Arrived Recently, Settled Pacific Coast, DNA Study Says [2007]
• Penon Woman [2006]
• NAGPRA update [ Elizabeth Weiss ] [2006]
• Affinities Of The Paleoindians [2006]
• First Americans [2006]
• Did Carolina Dogs Arrive With Ancient Americans? [2006]
• NAGPRA and scientists [2006]
• Study Sheds Light On Early Migration (Americas) [2005]
• Alleged 40,000-Year-Old Human Footprints In Mexico Much, Much Older Than Thought [2005]
• Ancient Tools At High Desert Site Go Back 135,000 Years (California) [2005]
• 40,000-year-old footprint of first Americans [2005]
• Footsteps in time that add 30,000 years to history of America [2005]
• JOURNEY OF MANKIND (The Peopling Of The World) [2005]
• Bones of Contention: A bad bill would throttle American archaeology. [2005]
• The Politics of Dead 'Native Americans' [2004]
• (South Carolina) Fire Pit Dated To Over 50,000 Years Old (More) [2004]
• Archeologist finds evidence of humans in North America 50,000 years ago [2004]
• Extinct humans left louse legacy(Homo Erectus and Homo Sapiens) [2004]
• First Mariners [2004]
• First Americans - Homo Erectus in America [2004]
• The Solutrean Solution--Did Some Ancient Americans Come from Europe? [2004]
• New Twist On Out-Of-Africa Theory [2004]
• Invasion of the Kennewick Men [2004]
• Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?) [2003]
• Erectus Ahoy (Stone Age Voyages) [2003]
• Javanese Fossil Skull Provides New Insights into Ancient Humans [2003]
• Evidence Aquits Clovis People Of Ancient Killings, Archaeologists Say [2003]
• American Indians Wary Of DNA Tests [2003]
• Sabre-tooths and Hominids [2002]
• CANINE EVOLUTION: A Shaggy Dog History [2002]
• Native American Origins Debated (now with DNA analysis) [2002]
• Human settlements far older than suspected discovered in South America. [2002]
• American Neanderthal? [2002]
• Who Were the First Americans? [2002]
• Calico: A 200,000-year Old Site In The Americas? [2001]
• The First Americans May Have Come By Water [2001]
• The Dixie Dingo [2001]