Posted on 12/23/2014 7:51:22 PM PST by Squawk 8888
The New Testament says Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, but one rogue Israeli archaeologist says it is far more likely the Christian savior was born in Bethlehem of the Galilee, more than 60 miles from Jerusalem.
Aviram Oshri spent nearly eleven years excavating artifacts in Bethlehem of the Galilee — an ancient biblical village near Nazareth that was later settled by German Templers — which he believes show that the traditional account of Jesus’s birthplace may be wrong.
But when he produced his findings for his employer, the Israel Antiquities Authority, he found his proposal dismissed and called “worse than a joke.”
Oshri disagrees.
The town of Bethlehem of Judea, about six miles south of Jerusalem, has always been considered the birthplace of Jesus. According to the New Testament, Joseph and Mary were living in Bethlehem of Judea at the time of Jesus’ birth and later moved to Nazareth up north. In another account, Joseph and Mary, who was then nine months pregnant, traveled more than 175 kilometers (68 miles) from Nazareth to Bethlehem of Judea, Joseph’s hometown, in order to be counted in a Roman census.
That never made sense to Oshri.
“How would a woman who is nine months pregnant travel 175 kilometers on a donkey all the way to Bethlehem of Judea?” he asked. “It makes much more sense that she would have traveled seven kilometers,” the distance from Nazareth to Bethlehem of the Galilee.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...
Quote from one article, dealing with the issue ...
— — — — —
Luke went on to say that, “all were proceeding to register for the census, everyone to his own city.” (Luke 2:3) It has seemed a problem that the Jewish method of returning to one’s own tribal headquarters to be “numbered” was used for a census under Herod.14 The Romans usually took a census in one’s home town.15 However, in a census for inheritance taxation it would be expected that this would be conducted where the tribal records were kept, no matter who conducted the census. Joseph was a descendent of David of the tribe of Judah. David’s ancestral home was in Bethlehem, and in that town the land records and genealogies required for such a census would have been located. Or, simply, Joseph was born in Bethlehem but then lived in Nazareth. Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem to register for this census, and there Jesus was born.
As will be seen in the following chapters, the evidence suggests a winter birth for Jesus. But, why would Joseph and Mary journey to Bethlehem in the middle of winter to register for the census? There are several possibilities. Joseph may have recently inherited some land. Since the special taxation was related to inheritances, Joseph journeyed to Bethlehem to claim his estate and settle any taxes due. He would have there registered his property for the census. Or, perhaps Joseph had recently become eighteen years of age, and as an adult was required to then register as an independent household.16 Or, they had recently married, and the registration of the family was required. Or, Joseph and Mary thought that their child might be the promised Messiah and that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem (Mic. 5:2). They may have timed their trip to Bethlehem for the census to ensure that Jesus was born there. Also, registration may have been required before the end of the Roman year, that is, December 31, and they were late. However, there is no need to require that Joseph’s registration occurred immediately after the census for taxation was decreed. There are other possibilities, but these are mostly speculation.
IV. Conclusion
In support of Luke’s description of the census that brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, it is confirmed that Augustus did decree a 5% world wide inheritance tax to support the military. This was sometime before the second taxing in 6 CE and likely before Herod’s death in 4 BCE; it was at some point discontinued. When this census took place cannot yet be determined, and Quirinius’ official status at that time is unknown.
An alternate translation suggests that Luke was actually saying that the census was only the one before that when Quirinius was governor of Syria in 6 CE. Luke was not saying he was governor when the first census was taken.
It does not seem presently possible to establish an earliest limit for the birth of Jesus. As such the search must go elsewhere to establish the date of His birth. As will discussed in the following chapters, the conception of John the Baptist and Jesus offers a surprising answer.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/firstcensus.htm
OK....which Bethlehem is also called Ephrath or Ephratha, or similar spellings?
‘Cos that’s the one, right there.
Well then, I'm out.
The Jews of Galilee went to Jerusalem on the principal feasts, such as Passover. But I think people have not looked at the nativity accounts in Matthew and Luke. Matthew does not tell us in Chapter I where the annunciation took place. But Chapter 2 begins by telling us that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and then we go to the story of the Wise men, the massacre of the innocents, the escape into Egypt, and the return not to Judea, but to the North. Luke tells a different but not contradictory story. He begins in Nazareth, then tells the story of the Baptist and Mary’s visit, before shifting back to Nazareth. We then tell of the journey to Bethlehem and the familiar events surrounding the birth. then of the circumcision and the presentation in the Temple. Then the rerun to Nazareth? Why the differences? The two men had heard different facts and had stitched together stories to fit the facts they knew. But we don’t know the time-lines they had in mind.
There is also a papyrus from about 80 AD in Egypt telling of a census there, in which everyone was ordered to return to their home area for counting.
We date the death of Herod at 4 BC, because Josephus says he died shortly after an eclipse of the moon. But there were a couple of partial eclipses after that, so that it is possible Herod lived past 4 BC and died later.
There is good evidence of a worldwide tax imposed by Augustus around 3 BC, in which people also pledged allegiance to him. That may very well be the census referred to by Luke (and not an early one in 7 BC, which
actually was only of Roman citizens).
Does anyone know if the order to return to husbands place of birth was empirewide or just certain price cels like judea
Places
It's a straight shot up 191 from Bethlehem to Nazareth. Twelve minutes by car, about an afternoon by donkey.
Plausible, except for the fact that there's always room at The Nazmotel. [They rent by the day, week, month, and if you're very lucky, by the hour.]
In Pennsylvania?
Because camels came along later and there was a really, really, long waiting list for a Ford?
LOL! I think I know the place........
I should know the answer to this, since when my grandson was 3 and learning why we celebrate Christmas he became convinced that the donkey we owned was the very one that carried Mary to Bethlehem. Grandson told everyone that would listen that our donkey was THE donkey in spite of us trying to correct him. I would ask the donkey which Bethlehem they went to, but the donkey has since died. That itself should not be a surprise considering the age the donkey would have to have been.
Bethlehem of the Galilee — an ancient biblical village near Nazareth... But when he produced his findings for his employer, the Israel Antiquities Authority, he found his proposal dismissed and called “worse than a joke.”The IAA tends to be a joke, and it appears to be in bed with the "Palestinians" and BDStroturf as often as not. I have to say though, after a cursory reading, that it's A) a new one on me, and B) sensible, logical, and plausible. I'm sure someone has already condemned it as heretical, blasphemous, Christmas-bashing, or something along those lines.
From the article:
Oshri published his findings in the journal Archaeology in 2005, two years after he completed the dig. He said that Protestants were open to it, but those who are more orthodox in their beliefs, such as Catholics and the Greek and Russian Orthodox, were not willing to accept his ideas.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/was-jesus-born-in-a-different-bethlehem/
I do not think that the reason is that they are more or less orthodox, the simple explanation is the huge amount of money and prestige invested in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Nativity
The church is administered jointly by Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Armenian Apostolic authorities, thus they will never accept any other location.
This http://thejewishhome.org/counter/BethlehemOfGalilee.pdf is a good text that as well includes the work by Oshri http://archive.archaeology.org/0511/abstracts/jesus.html
Quite possible. After all, there IS a big electric star on South Mountain overlooking Bethlehem.
Every thing points to them being in the Bethlehem of Judea when Jesus was born,
I do have a problem with a man taking the chance even in those times of traveling 80 miles on foot or a donkey with a woman even 6 or 7 months on the way. but I don`t know.
The gospel of Mathew indicate that Joseph and Mary never went to Nazareth until after they left Egypt to return back to Israel.
And I also believe it shows that Jesus was born in a house, not that it would be strange for him to be born in a stable but there are the two accounts and I can understand the one in Mathew a little better.
The census was for tax purposes. Making people move away from where they make a living makes no sense in that context.
-——How would a woman who is nine months pregnant travel 175 kilometers on a donkey all the way to Bethlehem of Judea?——
That question makes very much sense. Especially in light of the apparent fact that there was a second Bethlehem.
It brings up the dreaded uncertainty
You should throw it, with great force. Preferable at their head.
When did joseph have to pay his taxes, did he pay his taxes and then decide Mary might not be able to make the trip back until after the baby was born?
I can not see traveling 80 miles even if she was only six or seven months pregnant, too many questions, I like Mathew better.
Merry Christmas to you, Sunk. Thanks for all you do.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
