Posted on 11/08/2012 1:34:19 PM PST by Javeth
Just curious especially to hear from anyone else who’s planning to do this, about the best countries overseas to retire and work in. My wife and I have done pretty well with our import/export business, worked hard and saved up, and are starting to make retirement plans. We’re not much enthused about giving out our hard-earned and saved money, to support the spendthrift socialist incompetence and excesses of Obama and his successors. So we’re looking to retire abroad, and if possible to even continue some of the business overseas in a lower key, part time context.
Our trading is mostly Mediterranean-based, so we were naturally thinking of a retirement home in a place like Italy, Greece, south of France, Spain or Portugal. (Don’t pay attention to all the overwrought headlines out of the liberal MSM in the US about Greece, as long as you work hard and save up, and make yourself reasonably self-sufficient, even Greece is a fine place to work and retire.) One of our sons is established in Holland right now anyway, married to a Dutch lady and speaks very good Dutch and German himself, so we’d have that family connection. (Holland, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Finland, Denmark all have surprisingly active evangelical communities in which many Americans have gotten set up to work, learn the language and raise families, maybe even retire in though don’t know much about that- seems like the fjords in Norway for ex. would be a beautiful place for a retirement home.)
OTOH I've been hearing a lot of good things from old friends about working/retiring in places like Argentina, Panama, Chile, Nicaragua, Brazil, Costa Rica and Uruguay. I've been to Buenos Aires and other parts of Argentina as well as Chile and was pleasantly surprised. Despite the financial issues from the 90’s they’re both very pleasant places, have that welcoming “Old European” feel that you can’t find in the US anymore, plus they tend to leave you alone to do as you will there. Also the cost of living is very low, even on the beaches and seaside locations. I had a brief stopover in Uruguay and seems to have that character, too, same with Itacare and Porta de Galinhas in Brazil IIRC, though not as well-known compared to Argentina and Chile. That’s also why I guess places like Panama, Nicaragua and traditional destinations like Acapulco have been attractive, though so far haven’t visited there personally. My wife and I just haven’t really investigated the retirement or work angle itself yet, so were wondering what others have experienced.
Obviously the standard caveats apply, we’re not looking for perfect paradises and other countries have their own issues and whatever. But almost anywhere would be far better than the PC socialist, grasping incompetence of the Obama and Clinton-led US and whatever comes after. We've already been moving toward renouncing our US passports anyway because of the damage done by the outrageous global taxation scheme in the US, the only one in the world that does that to it's own citizens- the banks in our overseas trading locations want to close our accounts because they can’t deal with the intrusive US paperwork requirements. We’re not about to give another dime to this wasteful, corrupt regime.
So for us and I’m sure millions in our boat, retiring abroad or just working in a lower key environment makes sense. A bonus if the new country really is a pleasant and welcoming land to stay in, as it seems that Argentina, Chile, Panama, Nicaragua and the Mediterranean would without doubt be for us. So we’d be glad to hear from any of you making a similar move.
[the necessary discussion on FR will be “bolt or revolt”.]
There might be a third way, which is to do some of both. I now have an Internet business,so I could theoretically live anywhere and still be involved here politically.
If I had your choices and family on the continent I would have a home in finland, visit and shoot in Germany, and have a smmer place on an island in Greece.
It would be difficult to get into Finland, I imagine, and I suspect they are clannish.
It was YOUR rationalle ...
Ping
I like Slovakia, small country, smack dab in the middle of Europe, fairly Conservative. And of course pretty much hate Communists from their time in the former Communist Czechoslovakia.
I'm surprised that your friend didn't choose Buzios or Fernando Noronha. It's better to live near the beach if you ate independently wealthy.
That is the funniest thing I’ve heard on an otherwise miserable day, but sadly true as well.
My suggestion would be this....decide on a couple places and then go and live there for at least 3-6 months before you actually decide to leave permanently. There is so much of a difference between here and anyplace else you have to actually experience it nobody can adequately explain it to you
S. America and Mexico once had quite an attraction but the drug and kidnapping business has made these areas unattractive to me. I took a summer session at the Tech in Monterrey and visited Mexico a dozen times but quit going in the 1990s. It’s just too dangerous.
I’m a retired oil company sales rep and have found the Missouri Ozarks very much to my liking. Low taxes, deer, turkey, great fishing, four seasons (altho summer can be hot and humid.) Lake of the Ozarks was built in 1930 and has attracted a large community of retirees like me.
Check www.funlake.com.
Ah, yes, reminds me of the time I was in Patagonia.../wcfields
Great to hear you got that impression about Chile, too. I think sometimes that country might be the ideal place to work, reside, invest and retire in. Seems to have a well-balanced combination of a hard-working, capitalist culture with friendly people, great climate, that old-fashioned European character and unbeatable natural beauty. I was stationed for a brief while in Malaga many years ago, and remember enough basic Spanish that I could probably build upon it.
I’ve visited Santiago before though not Valparaiso, sounds like something worth looking into. That’s in Central-North Chile, correct?
I’m a long time lurker but decided to log in when I saw this post, mainly because of the danger it poses to both the OP and any others who might be thinking the same thing.
Without commenting on your reasons for wanting to retire abroad, you should realize that for tax purposes, it doesn’t matter. You are an American citizen. It doesn’t matter where you are living, you are still subject to US taxation, regardless of whether a tax treaty is in place with your chosen country or not.
For retirement accounts, such as 401K and IRA or other securities, it’s all considered ordinary taxable income the moment you start drawing on it. Income you earn from business you are doing in that country might have some tax exclusions for you under the Foreign Earned Income code. You are still required to file a 1040 and failure to do so can result in a $10,000 fine.
The other option is to renounce your citizenship, but this poses its own financial problems. At the time of such a renouncement, you would be required to add up the value of all your assets (retirement, checking, savings accounts, homes, cars, artwork, etc.) and pay a lump tax on the value of them all. It’s called an Exit Tax and it was enacted to discourage the kind of thing you seem to be wanting to do.
Hope this helps and I strongly advise speaking to both a lawyer and a competent accountant before making any major decisions.
Bump for later
Great plan.
I think you’ll see the best and brightest in the medical field will set up offshore clinics in the Caribbean.
So wealthy Americans can get beyond Obamacare, with a short plane ride from Florida.
That’s an area I’m watching closely.
later
I’d consider Ireland. My favorite place is northern Italy, near Switzerland. Plenty of small town living. Food can’t be beat.
I’m researching Panama. There are several programs for retirees, people who are economically self-supporting, and a new program for friendly countries- they need English-speaking people to work! That last program is quick, and less red-tape.
Good information. So one CAN leave after paying an exit tax - it might be a small price to pay for a nice climate, low cost of living and to be free of Obamaphone lady.
Yeah, that’s why I haven’t visited Mexico itself yet even though I’ve been a few other places in the Americas, every time I read the headlines about the cartels the place makes me nervous. OTOH I’ve always gotten the impression that Chile and Argentinian Patagonia for ex. are socially and culturally (and of coures geographically) a world away from Mexico. The Chileans especially seem to have been among the friendliest and happiest people I met, hard-working but also able to take nice vacations, relax and enjoy other’s company. I also found this appealing balance of qualities in the Germans to my surprise, though of course Germany’s nowhere near Chile as far as the natural beauty of the countryside and beaches.
As far as Mexico goes, I have known a few people who’ve worked or retired there, and in at least a brief aside in a casual conversation a few months ago, seemed like they loved it wherever they’d settled in, spoke enough Spanish to get along nicely and had great friendships with both the locals and fellow expats. I should have asked more about the details then, but I’m guessing they must have been in one of the nice communities that are maybe more concentrated in the Yucatan or Acapulco. I know precious little about Mexico other than it’s divvied up into a variety of different states that don’t particularly like or get along with each other, seems they have very different senses of identity and maybe different cultures too. Maybe the work/retirement destinations are just a world apart in terms of safety and quality compared to the cartel-controlled regions?
I discovered San Miguel de Allende, a beautiful town in the Eastern part of the State of Guanajuato.
I never heard of it before I went there, but found out it has the largest community of ex-pat Americans in the world.
About 13,000 Americans year around and 20,000 in Winter.
Since it is in the Central Highlands plateau it never goes below 62 degrees or above 82 degrees.
That's where I am going in 15 years.
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