EXCLUSIVE: Apple Has Destroyed 490,000 American Jobs

Business Insider ^ | May 1, 2012, 12:02 PM | Eric Platt and Ben Duronio

[Swordmaker]

After taking heat for shipping jobs to China and contracting to employers with questionable labor conditions, Apple (rather publicly) took credit for creating more than half a million jobs in the U.S.

514,000 to be exact. 

That figure included nearly 50,000 employees in its retail network and its corporate headquarters, where products are designed.

But it also included FedEx and UPS employees who deliver its products and employees at Corning who make glass for iPads and iPhones.

So Apple basically counts anyone vaguely associated with the company or its products as a job that Apple created.

But what about the competitors Apple has bumped off in its relentless move to the top? 

What about the once-profitable markets, products, and companies it has destroyed? What happened to those jobs?

Business Insider analyzed data on Bloomberg, went through dozens of 10-Ks, and read through layoff announcements to see how Apple's peers have done.

What we found:

Apple has destroyed nearly as many jobs as it helped create, eliminating some 490,570 positions.

Click here to see the jobs that Apple has destroyed

[rurgan]

You free traders have no understanding of how fast the U.S. has been and is being deindustrialized. Maybe because it isn't happening? OH yeah? Look at Detroit in 1949, the center of the industrial world. Now it is decayed, 3rd world hell hole. This happened to most of the industrial cities of the U.S. and will happen to the rest of the U.S. as our industrial base is withered away. imagine if instead we built on what we had in 1949 instead of giving it all away to China.Look at Shanghai , a china city and the tremendous growth in 20 years. 20 years ago is when we started trading with China ( and Clinton made it worse with the free trade agreement with China) Well the U.S. is being rapidly deindustrialized. We import almost 3 trillion worth of products per year.And with the retail markup that's almost all of this consumer economy you keep praising. It may appear to some like you that everything is ok but that is because we are living on debt which we use to buy all this foreign crap. The U.S. can't survive if we have to import practically all of the things we use. If we are not there yet then we will be there soon as the massive amounts of imports we buy proves. U.S. Private sector job growth was almost non-existent over the past ten years. Take a look at this horrifying chart: chart

What do you think caused the non-existant job growth in the past 10 years when the population has mushroomed (mostly because of immigrants and welfare babies).Naturally when the population grows then we'd have more gas stations, convenience stores, retail stores, supermarkets , restaurants. So that proves that we lost millions of good jobs like manufacturing, engineering and created those stupid minimum wage jobs with a net of zero growth in the private sector.And it's worse than that if you take out all the useless government contractor jobs, government jobs, non profits etc. We are done and you free traders are preventing us from helping America.

[Toddsterpatriot]

You free traders have no understanding of how fast the U.S. has been and is being deindustrialized. Maybe because it isn't happening? OH yeah?

Yeah! Why don't you do a little research? Find out just how much we manufacture. That way your complaints will have more weight.

Look at Detroit in 1949, the center of the industrial world. Now it is decayed, 3rd world hell hole.

Yup! Keep up those liberal Democrat policies and that will happen to the rest of the country. Just not today.

( and Clinton made it worse with the free trade agreement with China)

I'm pretty sure I already mentioned it once, we don't have a free trade agreement with China.

Well the U.S. is being rapidly deindustrialized.

Prove it.

We import almost 3 trillion worth of products per year.And with the retail markup that's almost all of this consumer economy you keep praising.

BS.

The U.S. can't survive if we have to import practically all of the things we use.

We don't, but keep whining. And keep ignoring the nearly $1.5 trillion worth of stuff we exported last year. It's listed in post #81.

And keep ignoring my questions, it really moves the debate along.

[rurgan]

We import almost 3 trillion worth of products per year.And with the retail markup that's almost all of this consumer economy you keep praising. BS. No it isn't BS. Retailers pay almost 3 trillion for imported products ,but that is only a small percentage of the retail price consumers pay . And that is what the stupid government calls the U.S. economy = "consumer spending" , and even government spending . that is most of your 15 trillion economy you keep praising. consumer economy that buys most of the things we use from other countries. hell even if the retail markup were only 50% then we are using 6 trillion worth of foreign stuff per year . that is too damn much.

China these commies are buying up our U.S. politicians and America.China is the biggest threat we have . China has already destroyed most of our U.S. manufacturing ability. They purposefully manipulated their currency to destroy our jobs, factories and technology.China is an evil, currency manipulating monstrosity. China needs to be stopped.Anyone that defends China is brainwashed by the liberal mainstream media into aiding a mortal enemy of America.

[Toddsterpatriot]

We import almost 3 trillion worth of products per year.And with the retail markup that's almost all of this consumer economy you keep praising.

Your math is so laughably wrong, you must be the product of a failing public school.

Thanks again for avoiding the questions I asked upthread.

And for your continued attempts to put words in my mouth.

China has already destroyed most of our U.S. manufacturing ability.

Here's your chance, again. Prove it. Find out our US manufacturing output and show me it's close to zero.

Or run away. Again.

[rurgan]

“We import almost 3 trillion worth of products per year.And with the retail markup that's almost all of this consumer economy you keep praising.

Your math is so laughably wrong, you must be the product of a failing public school.”

No. I worked for a retailer. All of the stuff they purchased was made in China, all of it. And they marked it up at least 50%. And that retailer purchased it from distributors here in the U.S. who actually did the importing from China. Of course those distributors made their profit too and so had a markup. So a 50% markup is extremely conservative. See distributors import something from China for a $1 and then sell that to retailers so they sell that for a lot more than $1 as they have to cover their shipping costs and also make a profit. then retailers buy from distributors and they have to make their profit. the U.S. does import almost 3 trillion of foreign stuff per year. And after the U.S. distributor and retailers make their profits then the price that U.S. consumers pay for foreign products is at least 6 trillion (and that is a conservative estimate because I ‘m only using a markup of 50%). So consumers pay in stores at least 6 trillion for foreign made products and that is most of the consumer economy. So if we don't import everything we use now, soon we will( as the rate of import growth is tremendous). It's ridiculous that the government says that our U.S. economy is consumer spending and government spending. Neither of those produce anything as most (soon ALL) of the stuff U.s. consumers buy is made in other countries. That is no economy . An economy is producing things and if we would produce the 6 trillion we buy from other countries that would increase our technological prowess, and create jobs for American citizens.

China is the biggest threat to the U.S. and freedom. china has manipulated its currency( and Obama fails to label China a currency manipulator). Just this currency manipulation has led to a destruction of over 50,000 U.S. factories (better than any war bombing campaign could have). China has killed U.S. citizens with this economic war. All we are living on is debt(16 trillion and counting) . china is lending the U.S. money and buying up politicians and banks etc. So China is propping us up while they take over. China is even pushing for the UN to regulate the Internet.

Be Afraid: Russia And China Seek To Put In Place Top-Down Regulation Of The Internet
from the pay-attention dept

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120221/02544717824/be-afraid-russia-china-seek-to-put-place-top-down-regulation-internet.shtml

For all the talk of SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/TPP, there's another much bigger threat to “the Internet as we know it.” It's a bunch of countries who are seeking to use the UN’s International Telecommunication Union (ITU) to create a top-down regulatory scheme for the Internet. This process began a few months back, but FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell has a pretty good summary of the situation in the WSJ, and why those who believe in Internet freedom should be afraid.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120221/02544717824/be-afraid-russia-china-seek-to-put-place-top-down-regulation-internet.shtml

China has to be stopped.China are a bunch of evil communists and they are at war with the U.S. and have destroyed our economy, factories, freedom( yes if you have money then you have more freedom so Americans have less money ...).

[rurgan]

We import almost 3 trillion worth of products per year.And with the retail markup that's almost all of this consumer economy you keep praising.

“Your math is so laughably wrong, you must be the product of a failing public school.”

The U.S. does import almost 3 trillion $ of foreign products.

I used to work for a retailer in the purchasing dept.All the stuff we purchased was made in China.

Is some item was $3 then the retailer would mark it up to at least $6. But that was purchased from the distributor who did the importing from china and had their own markup.

So consumers are paying at least 6 trillion in products made in other countries. That's most of the stuff we use and is too much . We need to make things in the U.S.A again. And china needs to be stopped. Soon it will be all of the things we use ( you can see this if you look at any graph of the increase in imports).

China is the biggest threat we have . And other countries are imitating China in how China has ripped off the U.S.. If you look at the numbers, at how fast imports are growing and how much we import already anyone can see that soon everything we use (or almost everything) will be made in other countries. A country cannot survive like that . And that is sad considering we the U.S. was far above in technology , manufacturing just a few decades ago, before free trade especially with China and BJ Clinton's free trade agreement with china helped accelerate the destruction of America. Look at detroit to see a destroyed U.S. city when it was just a few decades ago the center of technology and manufacturing in the world.

[Toddsterpatriot]

So consumers are paying at least 6 trillion in products made in other countries. That's most of the stuff we use and is too much .

Thanks, but I don't need any more proof of your bad math.

If you want to prove we don't manufacture anything anymore, go straight to the source.

Show how much we manufacture, don't try to derive it with your silly retailing stories.

[discostu]

OK I don’t even like Apple but that list is retarded. Half those companies screwed themselves up, and even if Apple did beat them at something that’s the goal of business. Capitalism ain’t pretty, but it is fun when you’re winning.

[GSWarrior]

Seems like I remember reading not too long ago that George Soros sold off all of his Apple stock.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Check it out, an actual fact.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here's another fact.

U.S. Imports from World Total by 5-digit End-Use Code 2002 - 2011

Maybe you could use it to make your posts more factual?

[rurgan]

US imports-exports increase by 16% in 2011; Transatlantic trade well over $600bn
Posted on January 26, 2012

US international trade recovered in 2011 seeing US exports reaching approximately $1.5 tr, up almost 17% from 2010, while imports increased by 16% reaching $2.2tr.

http://transatlanticbusinessforum.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/us-imports-exports-increase-by-16-in-2011-transatlantic-trade-well-over-600bn/

U.S. imports 2.2 trillion (the retail price of those foreign products is at least twice that much).

And imports are EXPLODING at 16% rate per year. So pretty soon practically everything U.S. consumers buy will be made in other countries. Do the math. You think this is sustainable? You keep pointing out our “U.S manufacturing” stats . at the rate that imports are exploding any manufacturing we have left in the U.S. will be replaced by imports.

The U.S. imports 2.2 trillion worth of foreign Products per year . Then importers mark those products up when they sell them in U.S. stores( I worked for a retailer who did this).The retailers and distributors need to cover their costs ( like shipping) and then add their own profit. So what U.S consumers pay for foreign products is much more than the 2.2 trillion(at least twice). And that is far too much. A Country that has to import that much is in trouble. We need to fix that but you say do nothing and allow China and other countries to rip off the U.S. ( China is a currency manipulator do you agree with Obama in that Obama refused to label China a currency manipulator?.The stupid government says that our economy is mostly consumer spending AND ridiculously government spending. That is not sustainable. We need to produce and manufacture in the U.S. if we are to survive. We could easily manufacture most of the things we use( just limit imports by quotas and tariffs)

[rurgan]

From this link below not from me: It gives here an example that it costs $1 to buy a foreign t-shirt at wholesale. And that the price that U.S. consumers pay is $30. the “consumer spending” economy is many times the cost of the imports( which are now at 2.2 trillion per year). You really think that a wholesaler importer pays the retail price for products imported from China, ie. $70 per China pair of sneakers?

Anyone who thinks that a U.S. company can compete with China companies that pay their workers 50 cents an hour is not living in reality. Anything that is made in the U.S.A now will soon be made in China(it's just common sense: why pay a worker $20 an hour when you can pay them 50 cents an hour, who would do that?).

From this link not from me:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-wholesale-price.htm
What’s somewhat ironic is that many of the things purchased at wholesale price from manufacturing companies outside the US are given considerable mark up. Slap a designer name on a T-shirt that cost a dollar at wholesale, and you can sell it for $30 US dollars (US) if not more. Did these things really cost that much more when they were sold at wholesale price?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, I'm sure all our imports get a 200% markup.

Keep ignoring the over $3 trillion we manufacture every year.
It's been fun talking past you.
Good luck with that math class.

[rurgan]

Keep ignoring the over $3 trillion we manufacture every year

Even if true how long before that 3 trillion goes to China?

Not long. U.S. imported 3.86 billion $ worth of goods from China in 1985 now it’s 399 billion $ per year. That is 100 times the increase in imports in about 26 years(extrapolate that to the future).Why would anyone make anything in the U.S. if they have to pay their workers $20 an hour when they can pay them 50 cents an hour in China? How can any U.S. company compete with that ? U.S. companies have additional burdens like the EPA, thousands of U.S. government regulations, unions, lawsuits, democrats killing the energy industry like coal, oil etc.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/187675/volume-of-us-imports-of-trade-goods-from-china-since-1985/

[rurgan]

Real Americans can't find a job, going into debt, can't buy medicine etc. Others barely making it on 2 incomes (those that can find a job that is) Yes I blame China for a lot of that. Growth of China imports over 100 times what it was in 1985. So pretty soon we will lose everything if as you say we have $3 trillion left in manufacturing then we are looking over the cliff at the abyss , because we will lose that pretty soon.Keep in mind that it will only take 1/20th of that 3 trillion dollars in imported china goods to replace our 3 trillion because that is the rate that China has kept their currency undervalued and is the wage advantage that China has 20 times .

[Toddsterpatriot]

From this link below not from me: It gives here an example that it costs $1 to buy a foreign t-shirt at wholesale. And that the price that U.S. consumers pay is $30. the “consumer spending” economy is many times the cost of the imports( which are now at 2.2 trillion per year)

From what I can tell, based on WalMart's Income Statement, they bought $335 billion worth of stuff and sold it for $447 billion. Even Nike only marked their $3.3 billion in purchases up to $5.85 billion.

Also, the idea that our entire $2.2 trillion in imports is consumer goods is ridiculous. How much is oil, the most obvious exception?

A little research would have stopped your silly claim, about imports comprising most of our purchases, from revealing your ignorance.

why pay a worker $20 an hour when you can pay them 50 cents an hour,

For some reason, American workers are among the most productive in the world, after you subtract out those who are really, really bad at math.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Keep ignoring the over $3 trillion we manufacture every year

Even if true how long before that 3 trillion goes to China?

Even if true? LOL!

We manufacture more than any other nation. Feel free to prove me wrong. Facts only, your error filled feelings are tiresome.

That is 100 times the increase in imports in about 26 years(extrapolate that to the future).

Go ahead, that will give me something else to mock.

U.S. companies have additional burdens like the EPA, thousands of U.S. government regulations, unions, lawsuits, democrats killing the energy industry like coal, oil etc.

It's true, ridiculous regulations can reduce our manufacturing output if we don't eliminate them. Big government lovers must be kept from the levers of power, especially when they're as bad at math as you.

[rurgan]

We manufacture more than any other nation. Feel free to prove me wrong. Facts only, your error filled feelings are tiresome.

Okay lets take raw steel production. China produces 8 times the steel that the U.S. produces and that is in tons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production

Of course this is even worse in electronics. U.S. Electronics sector has been almost all outsourced to china and other places(Especially Consumer electronics like flat screen TVS, ipads, smart phones, kindle and thousands of similar products.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/08/17/why-amazon-cant-make-a-kindle-in-the-usa/

The U.S. has lost the ability to manufacture most of these high tech products. This article is a must read for every American.

Additionally U.S. employment in manufacturing has declined from 17 million to 11 million since 2000. And as the imports from China and other places are increasing at an exponential rate most of the remaining 11 million will be gone soon(China has over 100 million workers in manufacturing but the liberal media says the U.s. is tops ).

Look, the U.S. is in real trouble .If you live here in the U.S. you should be aware and prepare. Obama is borrowing 2 trilion $ per year(so are local,state governments,individuals and businesses). Our total debt is over 45 trilion $ and exploding everywhere . Look at just the federal debt clock(16 trilion and exploding). You really things are ok since as you say we the U.S. produce more than anyone? The government is printing money and creating money out of thin air . There is no one that has all this money they are lending to us that is keeping us afloat. that money is being created out of thin air .Not even china has that money that we are borrowing , even though China produces everything( yeah sure the international socialists say we produce more than china but that is just part of the plan to destroy the U..S. with this free trade). Debt and imports are increasing at an exponential rate. That is not sustainable . We are going down:the question is not if but when, total collapse is the future of the U.S. . Prepare while you can or keep believing we are ok and producing so much.look at the debt clock if you need any more proof.

[rurgan]

We manufacture more than any other nation. Feel free to prove me wrong. Facts only, your error filled feelings are tiresome

That might be some statistic touted by the liberal media . But that stat is in inflated, overvalued dollars.China undervalues its currency at least by a factor of 20 times.

As I showed China produces 8 times the steel (in tons).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production But if you show it in dollars the U.S. might produce more in dollars as China does in its currency.

Jobs in U.S. manufacturing are decreasing at exponential rate( look at a graph of manufacturing jobs as a percentage of population now only around 3% of population.No , our productivity is not increasing at this rate even with inflation, much as the liberal media loves to say). But our debt and imports are increasing at exponential rate. That is not sustainable. The only way to prosper is to produce not to borrow to pay for imports. In the U.S. only 3.8% of population are manufacturing jobs and that is rapidly declining http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/09/1215/Chinamanufacturingjobs.html. That is not producing more than anyone.What we are producing is debt and printing money . the Obama democrat is destroying America..

The liberal media and socialists want to destroy the U.S. They are doing it with free trade and illegals.

China produces much more than the U.S. even now it produces almost 50% of the world's steel. This is an excerpt from an article not from me:

http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/09/1215/Chinamanufacturingjobs.html

China Adds Almost As Many Manufacturing Jobs As Exist In The United States

While the United States was losing millions of manufacturing jobs over the past decade, China was gaining many millions more. China's manufacturing employment increased by 10 percent in four years, from 100.9 million workers in 2002 to 112 million in 2006, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). The increase was almost equal to the total number of Americans working in the U.S. manufacturing sector (14 million at the end of 2006, declining to 11.6 million in November, 2009). China has 100 million more people working in its manufacturing sector than does the United States.

The massive growth in manufacturing employment in China counters a myth propagated in America's economic circles that China's manufacturing employment is declining, just as it is in America.

Yet the number of manufacturing workers in China is equal to 33 percent of the U.S. population. By comparison, the 11.7 million U.S. manufacturing workers at the end of November represented an order of magnitude less — 3.8 percent of the U.S. population.