Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Human Stabbed a Neanderthal, Evidence Suggests
Livescience.com ^ | 21 July 2009

Posted on 07/22/2009 3:53:18 PM PDT by rdl6989

Newly analyzed remains suggest that a modern human killed a Neanderthal man in what is now Iraq between 50,000 and 75,000 years ago. The finding is scant but tantalizing evidence for a theory that modern humans helped to kill off the Neanderthals.

The probable weapon of choice: A thrown spear.

The evidence: A lethal wound on the remains of a Neanderthal skeleton.

(Excerpt) Read more at livescience.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History; Miscellaneous; Science
KEYWORDS: ggg; godsgravesglyphs; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-28 next last

1 posted on 07/22/2009 3:53:18 PM PDT by rdl6989
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Neanderthal murder ping.


2 posted on 07/22/2009 3:54:19 PM PDT by rdl6989
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989

The world’s first “hate crime”. Where’s Al Sharpton when you really needed him?


3 posted on 07/22/2009 3:55:00 PM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989

Reparations?


4 posted on 07/22/2009 3:55:56 PM PDT by indyhome
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989

This wouldn’t have happened had Neanderthals had spear control laws.


5 posted on 07/22/2009 3:56:26 PM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989

How do we know a modern human threw the spear? Did it have a luggage tag on it or something?


6 posted on 07/22/2009 3:57:31 PM PDT by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989

It wasn’t me! I was sleeping in bed with my sweetheart... Just ask her! Hey Honey? Honey?


7 posted on 07/22/2009 3:57:50 PM PDT by John123 (Turn on your teleprompter Obama and read your lips... "No New Taxes!!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Richard Kimball

Helen Thomas was there to cover the story as it happened.


8 posted on 07/22/2009 3:58:40 PM PDT by rdl6989
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Richard Kimball
Neanderthals didn't use thrown spears as far as we know, while there is plenty of evidence that humans at that time did use thrown spears.
9 posted on 07/22/2009 3:59:28 PM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Richard Kimball
"How do we know a modern human threw the spear?"

CSI: Pleistocene Period

10 posted on 07/22/2009 4:02:58 PM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Richard Kimball
No Proof, in those days everyone loved each other and the earth mother, nothing to see here, move on.
11 posted on 07/22/2009 4:04:35 PM PDT by Little Bill (NH the Sixth Gay State.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989

Okay, they have a skeleton with damage to a rib. Period.

From that they deduce that it was made by a projectile rather than a spear whose wielder held on to the spear as he thrust. They deduce by experimenting with dead pig carcasses. But remember that they have no soft tissue to examine—they are going by the mark left on the bone by a projectile as compared to the mark left on the bone by a hand-held spear.

On the bone of a modern pig.

Having decided that it was a projectile, then they deduce that the projector of the projectile had to have been a human rather than a Neanderthal because, humans had learned to use spear throwers and Neanderthals had not.

Notice that the question is not the nature of the weapon’s head—in either case it’s assumed to be a spear point. The issue is whether it was hurled or held and thrust.

That’s an awful lot to deduce from a single rib with a mark on it.

It could be true, of course. But it’s a huge theory based on very tiny evidence.

If I tried this sort of thing with historical arguments about something in, say, the high Middle Ages or something during the Thirty Years War, deducing this sort of momentous sociological theory about this or that group’s relations with some other group and did it on this slim a foundation of forensic evidence, I’d be laughed out of the court of historical scholarship.

But they get away with this because, after all, we’re never going to have much more evidence—we’re stuck with a single rib with a mark on it.

The more honest thing to do would be to say, “we just don’t know.”

But if they did that, their whole discipline of “evolutionary anthropology” would go up in smoke.

I don’t mind them playing around with speculative theories. I just despise the journalists and popularizers who treat this now as established fact: early humans killed off the po’ widdle Neanderthals” “Big bad human meanies are always killing of po widdle defenseless critters.”


12 posted on 07/22/2009 4:05:04 PM PDT by Houghton M.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989
Happens in Chicago all the time in 2009. ObamaCare Jokes Obama Jokes
13 posted on 07/22/2009 4:06:34 PM PDT by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Humanity's Edge" - on amazon.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Houghton M.
I just despise the journalists and popularizers who treat this now as established fact...

Wait'll these frauds get a hold of man-made global warming theory.

Oh, wait...!

14 posted on 07/22/2009 4:09:43 PM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Flycatcher

lol.


15 posted on 07/22/2009 4:10:03 PM PDT by rdl6989
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

“Neanderthals didn’t use thrown spears as far as we know”

Argument ab silentio. Given the limited surviving Neanderthal evidence, what are you going to do when the first evidence of Neanderthal spear thrower use turns up?

I’ll stipulate that the evidence for humans having and using spear throwers. But the other half rests on absence of evidence, “so far” and that “so far” is always the kicker.

And the danger is that, since we “know” that only humans, not Neanderthals, used thrown spears, henceforth all evidence of thrown spears automatically gets ascribed to humans, as in the case at hand.

But what if, just by chance, some Neanderthals did use thrown spears but we just haven’t, so far, stumbled on any evidence? After all, of all the Neanderthals that ever lived and all the early homines sapientes that ever lived, what percentage of their bones have we now seen and examined? A relatively tiny sample, I think.

If we were doing contemporary sociology, we’d say, “not a very good sample size to predicate huge generalizations on.”

But since it’s purportedly 50,000 years ago and we are not likely ever to have a decent sample size, we still go ahead and make sweeping generalizations.

I’d have no problem with this if people just identified it as what it is, wild speculation based on slivers of evidence.

But then the research grant money might not flow as freely.


16 posted on 07/22/2009 4:12:44 PM PDT by Houghton M.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989
I saw a Neanderthal throw a spear on Discovery or somewhere. If humans killed off the Neanderthals then why is there only one with possible wounds and not all of them? Neanderthals spear design did not change much on 250,000 years according to a previous post. Lots of speculation going on here just like evolution.
17 posted on 07/22/2009 4:19:59 PM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Houghton M.
The speculation that humans drove neanderthals extinct is an attractive one, despite the scant amounts of evidence.

It is quite natural that when two related species that compete for the same resources but cannot or will not reproduce together are put into proximity, one will be driven to extinction.

And yes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence; so the fact that we have no evidence of Neanderthals using thrown spears is not evidence that Neanderthals didn't use thrown spears.

But if a body from 1811 was dug up and had arrows in it you might suggest it was likely that he was shot by Native Americans.

And “evidence suggests” is not a sweeping generalization but carefully couched language that fits the data.

18 posted on 07/22/2009 4:20:12 PM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Houghton M.
But since it’s purportedly 50,000 years ago

This comes from the crawl out of Africa and then crawl back in school. It seems to me that anatomically modern people weren't supposedly wandering around until 30K years ago.

19 posted on 07/22/2009 4:23:44 PM PDT by Little Bill (NH the Sixth Gay State.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: rdl6989
Just the MAN keeping the Neanderthal down.
20 posted on 07/22/2009 4:27:34 PM PDT by KSCITYBOY
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-28 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson