Some scientists affirm early Native presence [ Americas, 33K before present ]

Indian Country Today ^ | Tuesday, June 16, 2009 | Carol Berry

[SunkenCiv]

"Since Europeans came to the Americas, they have often been wrong about the Native inhabitants and Western science has not been immune to this problem," said one Denver scientist May 29. A perhaps-controversial 33,000 years ago, "and probably long before that," people lived here, according to Steven R. Holen, curator of archaeology in the Denver Museum of Nature and Science's Department of Anthropology. "Several scientists, me included, are producing evidence of a much older Native American occupation of the continent," he said, adding that, as has happened in the past, "the scientific establishment has underestimated the time depth of the Native American occupation of the Americas." ...Holen studies the patterns of breakage in mammoth bones, extrapolating and recreating the kind of instrument and force required to create such fractures and hypothesizing possible implements that could be made from the shattered remains. "The only way these could be broken in the past as we see it is by humans using hammerstones." Although stone tools have not yet been found with the bones, "You don't have to have stone tools -- you have to have evidence of human technology... Scientists from several major universities, especially in western states like Nevada, Wyoming, Arizona and Alaska still 'know' that Native Americans have not been in North America before approximately 14,000 years ago, or just prior to Clovis culture. But no one has demonstrated there is a natural way the bones could be broken in these patterns. No one has yet disproved my findings." ...Pushing the clock back further still, Holen said he is working on a site that is "probably much older"...

[wolfcreek]

I suspect there were some very liberal Indians who insisted on rewriting/removing proof of history, making scientific assumptions more difficult.

I prefer to believe the offspring of the aboriginal.

[BroJoeK]

"Uhmmmmm 33,000 years. That about corresponds to Dr. Louis B. Leaky’s estimate from the Calico Early Man dig in the Mojave Desert."

Not even close.

Wikipedia on Calico Early Man site

The basic problem with all the pre-Clovis sites is their evidence is still somewhat ambiguous. The earliest so far is the Meadowcraft Rockshelter in Southwestern PA, dated between 16,000 and 19,000 years old.

Meadowcroft Rockshelter

Even here, apparently, there is not enough material to define the culture it came from.

[investigateworld]

It’s been a few years since I was there, but 33 to 40,000 years was the numbers they were considering then .... my bad.

[colorado tanker]

The bathroom was the inner sanctum of a religious structure and the toilet seat was a ceremonial chest-piece.

Well, that's true, isn't it? I worship there at least once daily. :-))

[SunkenCiv]

Well, I think the Leakey estimate was a couple hundred thousand? Blam? The supposed artifacts were probably just naturally occurring flakes from rockslides and whatnot. :’) But Leakey’s general idea that human presence in the Americas far exceeded what was then the floor for dates (about 3000 years) was the real problem.

[Erasmus]

The bathroom was the inner sanctum of a religious structure and the toilet seat was a ceremonial chest-piece.

That last part would not be far off, after a night of heavy drinking.

[investigateworld]

I’ve heard that number too.
Gads, I was there when they started ....

[SunkenCiv]

:’)

[investigateworld]

I even recall some gorgeous coeds from BYU and Utah State working there......