Posted on 07/26/2005 1:20:19 AM PDT by onja
If this isn't appropiate please cut it.
I'm trying to get my facts straight so I don't mind correction if I'm wrong.
Carthage was an important figure in history. They were the heirs of Phoenicia and were the main traders of the Mediterranean. They controlled Northern Africa, Sicily, Sardinia, and Spain. They posed a very real threat to Rome and its allies. So much that the Romans destroyed them with no pity at all in the Third Punic War with absolutely no pretense other than that the Carthaginians were regaining the trade business. I went to my local library found a several bookcases full of Roman history. Most of another with Greek. Many more with all the Mesopotamian cultures, European, a whole shelf of Egyptian, another of Chinese, most of another of Indian. And not a single book on Carthage.
Some mercenaries captured a city in NE Sicily. They butchered the men and enslaved the women. The leader of Syracuse was tired of the mercenaries raiding him so he prepared to attack them. The mercenaries asked for help. Carthage responded but attacked the mercenaries instead. Rome ignored it till Carthage had captured the city. They then made an alliance with the mercenaries, who recently had been the enemy of all, and attacked the Carthaginians. It was a fairly even fight but after 23 years the Carthaginians gave up. They relinquished control of Sicily and paid a lot of money. They were at a loss then to pay their armies so the mercenaries revolted. In the chaos Rome took Sardinia and Carthage couldn’t stop them.
Seeking to regain wealth they conquered most of Spain. Spain was divided between the two and Carthage was told to not bear arms above a certain river. Sarguntum was well below that mark so Rome had no legal right there or even having an alliance there. Also the Sarguntums had attacked Carthage’s allies and massacred their own pro-Carthage citizens. So, rightly, Hannibal attacked and captured the city. The Romans demanded Hannibal and of course they didn’t get him and declared war. Hannibal crossed the mountains, allied with Gaul, and defeated many armies (Cannae anyone?). He lost because he had planned to have Northern Roman peoples to side with him. They would have but they hated Gauls. Rome, cunningly, invaded Carthage, won ONE battle, and so won the war. Carthage lost Spain, Hannibal, and all their remaining wealth.
Rome was very harsh with Carthage. They were not allowed to declare war or do almost anything. But, miracle it is, they became wealthy again and paid back the debt. Still, militarily they were by no means a threat. The Numidians attacked Carthage. Carthage tried (Unsuccessfully)to defend themselves and Rome told them to pay a lot more money and declared war. After pleading and diplomacy they were told to send 300 noblemen’s children as hostages and they would have peace. They did. The Romans ignored them and landed at the traitorous city of Utica. They were told they would stop if they gave up their weapons. They did and Rome ignored them again. The entire city worked hard and built new weapons soon. Slaves were freed and enthusiastically fought. The city of Carthage resisted the siege and general attack for three years. The Romans then took it after 6 days of harsh fighting. The Carthaginians fought bravely. The very last stand was made though by Roman deserters who fought to the death. Out of over 700,000 only 50,000 survived. Many of these were enslaved. The city was burned for 10 days. The harbor was destroyed. The fields sown with salt.
my pleasure.
I guess we're the only ones. :')
bookMARK. Thank you.
In the movie "Patton", George C. Scott (portraying that general) recounts being a Carthaginian soldier killed in the final assault (in a past life -- Patton subscribing to a general view of reincarnation); in the poem above he's Roman two or three different times.
I love in Gladiator when they're reenacting the sacking of Carthage. The "Carthaginians" win and the Roman said "I don't remember that in the history books."
Heh... I found that movie in one of the local used disk places; there were two copies, one of which was the regular version, the other was the original, two-disk version with the extra "Age of the Gladiator" one hour program (dunno the actual title), and they were the same price, so I got the latter. (': The whole movie was only barely historical (if memory serves, Commodus killed his sister after one too many plots of hers to kill him was traced back to her) but looks terrific, and the battle scene at the beginning is very realistic and to period.
And the Carthaginians weren't unique in child killing. Most ancient civilizations did it. Some just weren't so open. Romans would expose their children and let them die. Same thing. And when they were afraid Hannibal would conquer them they did human sacrifice. And don't forget the coloseums where many thousands of slaves, christians, etc. died.
BTW-The Romans likely exaggerated Carthage's faults to get support in fighting them. And also possibly to make it look like a crusade when it was merely political. To the victor belongs the history.
"Romans would expose their children and let them die. Same thing."
Nope, not the same thing. Abandoning unwanted children to almost certain death is something that is not Roman, and not particularly common (nor a religious rite), but probably universal, and is even done today from time to time. On a superficial level these are both killing children. But the murdering of ones own healthy children to satiate one's diety on a systematic and regular basis is something which is found in Carthage and other Canaanite cultures, and was so alien to Romans and Greeks that it was remarked upon.
OTOH, the Spartans (for example) had their "Place of Rejection", a cliff on the edge of town, where newborn male children were inspected, and if found to be defective or too frail, were hurled to their deaths. That was a form of eugenics.
The Roman games often involved the brutal slaughter of men, women, and children. It began as an odd Etruscan funeral rite, grew out of that, and later became a handy way to carry out public executions, as well as to entertain the many unemployed who crowded Rome. Up to 400,000 lived on the bread dole during the centuries of Roman prosperity.
Carthage Tries To Live Down Image As Site Of Infanticide
Post-Gazette/Wall Street Journal | 5-26-2004 | Andrew Higgins
Posted on 05/27/2005 12:20:44 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1411857/posts
Prehistoric Archaeology of the Aegean, Human Sacrifice
Dartmouth University | 1995 | Various
Posted on 07/26/2005 1:07:44 PM PDT by Little Bill
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1451005/posts
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