Columbus' ship (forefront) compared to Zheng He's massive vessel (background) Posted on 03/08/2005 12:42:07 PM PST by Destro
Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast
Feb 24, 2005
On May 16, a Canadian architect will tell the United Nations of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast of North America, lending weight to the theory that the Chinese arrived in the New World some 70 years before Christopher Columbus.
A Canadian architect has discovered what is believed to be the lost naval base of China‘s foremost explorer on the Atlantic coast of North America, lending weight to the theory the Chinese arrived in the New World some 70 years before Christopher Columbus.
The revelation was made to a Malaysian newspaper by Gavin Menzies, a former British Navy submarine commander and author of the controversial best-selling book, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World.
Menzies‘s theory that the Chinese Muslim explorer, Admiral Zheng He or Cheng Ho discovered the New World first made international headlines in March 2002 and has sparked controversy and criticism both in the West and China.
Earlier this month, Menzies revealed that a site was found on the Atlantic coast of North America which may have been Zheng‘s naval base.
The discoverer of the site, whom Menzies described as a “distinguished Canadian architect“, will inform the Canadian Government and then UNESCO, and ask the latter to make it a World Heritage site, The Star said.
Public disclosure will then be made on May 16 at the Library of Congress.
“It‘s huge,“ Menzies said.
“It has massive walls, and has remained undiscovered for 600 years. And it‘s two-thirds the size of the Forbidden City…Walls, roads, the remains of foundations, graves, God-knows-what.
“It would cost a vast amount of money to excavate this site. It‘s in a very difficult position to reach. We definitely do need a lot of money to carry on the research,“ according to the daily.
“And so far, I‘ve received over C$1.23 mil from sales of my book and I‘ve ploughed all that back into research. But the scale of research required now is more than my finances can bear. So I‘m very, very interested in a foundation to raise money and carry on the research, particularly this site of Zheng He‘s.“
Does the discovery of the naval site in North America confirm Menzies‘ theory once and for all?
“Yes, but I don‘t need it,“ Menzies said.
Columbus' ship (forefront) compared to Zheng He's massive vessel (background)
“This discovery absolutely confirms it but, in my view, my arguments have completely confirmed it already. I could have predicted exactly where this base is, by the way.”
Menzies theory and his book were featured in a recent Discovery Channel documentary that looked at the mystery of Zheng and his magnificent fleet of giant Ming treasure junks, which he commanded at the request of Emperor Zhu Di in the 15th century.
Collating historical accounts, archaeological finds and consultations with modern-day historians, archaeologists and scientists, the program studied and put to the test Menzies‘s theory.
Part of that involved the retracing of the routes that Menzies believes the Chinese took from Africa to Europe, to the Caribbean and along the eastern coast of North America.
The documentary provided re-enactments, location shooting, and computer-generated models of Zheng‘s fleet in order to bring to life the superpower that was 15th-century China.
It also presented the views of experts who are opposed to Menzies‘s theory, which stirred a hornet‘s nest among historians and academics.
Menzies‘s website (www.1421.tv) gets 1,000 visitors a day, and some of them share their own evidence and results of their own research.
In the last two years, through the website, Menzies and his team have managed to gather some 13,000 people from 120 countries to help them in their continuing research.
“One of the big mistakes that I made in my book, which I will correct in my next edition, is that I put everything down to Zheng He,“ Menzies explained.
“But I found out that his predecessor, Kublai Khan, had charted almost all of the world, including the Americas. Zheng He owed a huge amount to Kublai Khan.
“We subsequently found Chinese maps of the Americas which predates Kublai Khan. These maps will be released to the general public on May 16 which will show that the Chinese had been mapping the Pacific and Atlantic coasts of North and South America for nearly 2,000 years.“
Menzies, 66, who spent more than 10 years travelling to more than 120 countries researching his theory, is very protective of his work and said it is not true that his work has been largely criticised, it added.
“There have been more than 8,000 reviews and mentions of my book and a vast majority accept the book‘s thrust,“ he said.
“And of the readers of my book and those who write in or e-mail, 99.6% agree with the general thrust of my book. The number of people who say that it‘s untrue is miniscule.“
His evidence, he said, can be broken down into three basic parts.
First is that the European explorers such as Magellan, Christopher Columbus, Vasco Da Gama and Captain Cook all had maps showing them the way to their respective destinations.
Secondly, when the explorers got to the Americas, they found Chinese people there.
And lastly, Zheng He‘s records of his travels still exist despite the belief that they had been destroyed by the Ming emperors as advised by xenophobic Confucian officials.
In fact, Menzies claimed that in China, Hong Kong and Singapore, one can get on a bus to a public library and read about it all.
Meanwhile a Chinese-government backed documentary crew is on the hunt in Warrnambool, Australia for the wreck of one of Zheng‘s ships.
The documentary focuses on the great historic exploratory sea voyages conducted across the globe under the command of Zheng He, 600 years ago.
In Warrnambool the documentary will explore the possibility that one of the ships in the four giant fleets under Admiral He‘s command may have been the mystery ship wrecked off the city‘s coastline.
“They think that instead of being Portuguese the mystery ship wrecked off the coast here might have been Chinese,“ chairman of the Mahogany Ship Committee of Warrnambool Pat Connelly said.
Connelly escorted the film crews as they captured footage at Levys Point beach where a piece of red olive-type timber, believed to be wreckage of the mystery ship, was found last October.
The crew‘s interpreter, Paul Qian,: “Recently in China a map from the Ming Dynasty, which was at the time of Zheng He, has been found and an outline of Australia is on the map and it is labelled as being inhabited with humans.“
Qian said the red olive wood found at Levys Point and its history remained a mystery for the time being.
“It needs radiocarbon dating but if it is over 700 years old it would have to be Chinese,“ he said. Connelly said the remains of a 600-year-old ship were found several months ago near Nanjing.
“The timber was dark red, similar to the olive wood found here last October,” Connelly said.
Who was first: Columbus or Zheng?
Columbus versus Zheng He
Some historians believe Zheng He (1371–1435) set sail in for America in July, 1405, half a century before Columbus‘ voyage to America. He was the admiral of a great fleet of big ships, each with nine masts and manned by 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and 150-feet wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of carrying 1,000 passengers In comparison, Columbus‘ three ships were less than 50-feet long.
According to some historians, Zheng He (1371–1435), arguably China‘s greatest navigator, set sail in for America in July, 1405, half a century before Columbus‘ voyage to America.
Statue of Zheng He, who was said to have been 8 feet tall.
He was the admiral of a great fleet of big ships, with nine masts and manned by 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and 150-feet wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of carrying 1,000 passengers (Columbus‘ three ships were less than 50-feet long).
Most of the ships were built at the Dragon Bay shipyard near Nanjing, the remains of which can still be seen today.
Through his big ships, Zheng would travel to the West seven times. For 28 years, he traveled more than 50,000km and visited over 30 countries. But who was Zheng He?
Ma He, as he was originally known, was born in 1371 to a poor ethnic Hui (Chinese Muslims) family in Yunnan Province, Southwest China. The boy‘s grandfather and father once made an overland pilgrimage to Mecca. Their travels contributed much to young Ma‘s education. He grew up speaking Arabic and Chinese, leaming much about the world to the west and its geography and customs.
Recruited as a promising eunuch for the Imperial household at the age of ten, Ma was assigned two years later to the retinue of the then Duke Yan, who would later usurp the throne as the Emperor Yong Le.
Ma was thus awarded the supreme command of the Imperial Household Agency and, upon his conversion to Buddhism, was given the surname Zheng and the religious name Sanbao (or Three Jewels).
Emperor Yong Le tried to boost his damaged prestige as a usurper by a display of China‘s might abroad, sending spectacular fleets on great voyages and by bringing foreign ambassadors to his court. Command of the fleet was given to his favorite Zheng He, an impressive figure said to be over eight feet tall.
Unfortunately, Zheng magnificent accomplishment was later targeted by other courtiers as wasteful. Most of his records were destroyed and building of ships with more than 3 masts were considered crimes punishable by death. So, a large part of his excursion has no reports.
In Africa near Kenya today, there are tribes that are clearly Asian-looking. They also consider themselves as the descendants of Zheng He‘s crew.
At the opposite end of the Indian Ocean, Arab storytellers tell of the fantastic seven voyages of a Muslim sailor named Sinbad.
Or was it Sanbao? Historians wonder.
So is this Red Army Chinese PR?
Suddenly, the picture becomes clearer... ;)
I'm sure that the Chinese built such ships, but many probably disappeared without a trace, much like ships of the Spanish Treasure Fleets. A FEW such ships sailing during periods of fair weather & with luck, may have made the round-trip. But with the odds stacked against such Magellanic voyages, how could the Chinese have considered such urban development on the far side of the globe economically feasible?
I just don't see the Chinese navigators going around the Cape of Good Hope & back sufficient times to warrant a city of the proportions described on the Eastern Seaboard. The Norse were much closer and they never managed more than a few logging/farming outposts (so far as we know).
Finally, China's period as a seafaring nation was historically very brief. I think that there is ample evidence to suggest that they explored the west coast from Puget Sound all the way down to South America. I'm sure that there were contacts with the civilizations of Central & South America. Perhaps they even constructed smaller ships in the Gulf of Mexico & reconnoitered the Caribbean. But that is still a far cry from massive fleets of large sailing vessels roving the Atlantic.
As I said, I'm skeptical. Show me a 300ft long, 700 year old junk off Nova Scotia.
Feral hogs suvive and multiply very well here and almost any settlers would have brought them and raised them. If there were any significant settlement, some would have escaped to the wild as they did once the Spanish arived.
No hogs before the Spanish, no settlements.
SO9
I'm not disputing Feng He's voyages, per se. I AM disputing the premature association of this archealogical site with his voyages, or with the Khan's Chinese Empire. There isn't enough evidence to support the hypothesis, and this former naval officer turned archeologist seems to be leaping to conclusions.
Ask yourself this question: If the Khan's fleets made it to Nova Scotia in sufficient 'strength' to build such a city, they why weren't they 'observed' cruising the medieval European coastline? It ain't that much further if we assume that this city is for real & chinese naval technology was THAT good. That's all I'm saying...
I saw the show on Discovery. As I recall it, while the part about the voyages to other parts of Asia, Africa and Arabia had some pretty good evidence, the Menzies theory about the Atlantic voyages was pretty thin gruel.
There seems to have been an extensive network of settlments that were wiped out by European origin deseases - ( maybe now Chinese origin plagues? ) before White men set foot on the Amazon.
The proper and boring position is to be skeptical. The fun part of all this is in the speculating!
It does go down to a passageway of sorts, but probably not a root cellar. It's hard to see much structure, probably the best stones were taken long ago.
From Publishers Weekly Levathes, a former staff writer for National Geographic , here tells the story of seven epic voyages made by unique junk armadas during the reign of the Chinese emperor Zhu Di. These "treasure ships" under the command of the eunuch admiral Zheng He traded in porcelain, silk, lacquerware and fine-art objects; they sailed from Korea and Japan throughout the Malay archipelago and India to East Africa, and possibly as far away as Australia. Levathes argues that China could have employed its navy--with some 3000 vessels, the largest in history until the present century--to establish a great colonial empire 100 years before the age of European exploration and expansion; instead, the Chinese abruptly dismantled their navy. Levathes describes the political showdown that led to this perverse turn of events, revolving around a clash between the powerful eunuch class and Confucian scholar-officials. Her scholarly study includes a section on the construction of the seagoing junks (the largest had nine masts, was 400 feet long and would have dwarfed Columbus's ships) and provides a look into court life in the Ming dynasty, particularly the relationship between the emperor, his eunuch and his concubines. Illustrated. Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc.--This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
Gavin Menzies claims that the gigantic imperial fleet commanded by Admiral Zheng He was the first to visit the Americas and the first to circumnavigate the globe. His book has engendered a fair amount of controversy, in no small part to the lack of physical or documentary evidence supporting Menzies' claims.
We have all encountered our fair share of TV productions that discuss off-beat or unconventional theories (Atlantis, UFOs, Noah's Ark, etc. etc. etc.) that credulously present the theory in question without offering any critical analysis. The result of these pseudoscientific "documentaries" is that we are told that the only plausible explanation for various tidbits of evidence can only be the particular off-beat theory in question. Rarely, if ever, are critics or mainstream scholars given a chance to rebut the theory.
Such is not the case with this program, which is basically divided into three parts. The first part is a basic history of the known voyages of Zheng He, which went as far as East Africa, making contact in Malaya, India, Arabia, among other lands. The program is valuable just for this alone, since most of us have never heard of Zheng He and tend to have a rather Eurocentric view of world exploration. The second portion gives Gavin Menzies the floor, where he puts forth his theory that Zheng went beyond the Cape, made numerous contacts in the Americas, and the Caribbean, and then completed the circumnavigation of the globe (although this aspect is barely discussed in the program). Menzies picks out the odd tidbit (a map here, a mysterious mound there, a possible European link with China as evidenced by a non-Chinese statue) to bolster his argument.
Most programs would have left it at that, and for that matter, most authors like Menzies would have consented only to present their side of the argument rather than get into a scholarly debate. However, the third part of the program allows all of Menzie's critics to open up broadsides on his theory, and they blast away with great vigor. I have to give Menzies credit for consenting to sit down on camera and admit that he has no evidence to rebut a number of his critics' arguments. Sometimes he admits, with great discomfort, that he simply doesn't know enough about a particular field to be able to discuss it. Not everybody would be willing to do that. He tenaciously defends his contentions, but at least does not dismiss the criticism out of hand.
Meanwhile, Menzies' critics have a field day with him, and one is left with the distinct impression, when all is said and done, that even though Zheng's fleet probably could have made it to the Americas (and maybe around the world) there simply is nothing in historical record to suggest that this ever happened, and there really isn't much circumstantial evidence to support Menzies' claim either. Of course, this assumes that the viewer has stuck it out through all of the scholarly thrusts & parries. All in all, I was pleased to see a production that wasn't hopelessly slanted one way or the other. Well done.
I've seen estimates of 50 million people for the Amazon Basin alone.
Good points. It may have been plundered a bit. OTOH, much of the original work appears to have been devoted to the maze-like "fences" that circle the hill.
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