Archeologist finds evidence of humans in North America 50,000 years ago

Canoe (Canada) ^ | November 17, 2004 | AP

[SunkenCiv]

University of South Carolina archeologist Al Goodyear said he has uncovered a layer of charcoal from a possible hearth or fire pit at a site near the Savannah River. Samples from the layer have been laboratory-dated to more than 50,000 years old. Yet Goodyear stopped short of declaring it proof of the continent's earliest human occupation. "It does look like a hearth," he said, "and the material that was dated has been burned." ...Goodyear, who has worked the Topper site since 1981, discovered the charcoal layer in May.

[blam]

Calico: A 200,000-Year-Old Site In The Americas?

"The classic "ancient site" in the New World is "Calico," located in the Central Mojave Desert of California (Shlemon and Budinger, 1990). Two issues have dogged acceptance of Calico by mainstream archaeologists: (1) the authenticity of the artifacts; are they truly the product of human manufacture, or merely naturally produced "geofacts?" and (2) the obvious pre-Clovis age of the deposits (see, for example, lengthy discussions in Leakey and others, 1968; Haynes, 1973; Bryan, 1978; Taylor and Payen, 1975; Carter, 1980; Meighen, 1983; Patterson, 1983; and Budinger and Simpson, 1985).

A lot of these old 'artifacts' became known as "Cartifacts" because George Carter found so many of them.

Carter was a geologist and could not get anyone to take his discoveries serious...so, he obtained a PhD in archaeology...with the same result, lol.

Carter wrote a good book years ago titled: Older Than You Think.

[blam]

"Do you know right off hand what length the average glacial cycles runs. Seems like ~20,000 years??? "

I think it's closer to 120,000 years.

[Varda]

Since modern humans weren't in Europe 50,000 years ago that leaves an Atlantic crossing from Africa. Given that modern Indians are descendent's of an ancient population genetically related to the same central Asian population that Europeans are descended from that eliminates the direct Africa route. So I'd say your article is blowing a lot of hot air.

[SunkenCiv]

The submerged river estuaries do seem like the best place to look.

[SunkenCiv]

Yeah, the radiocarbon limit is only 60,000 years nowadays, but the age is also ballparked using its stratigraphy. I would like to know how ash remains are normed up for the test, since they might test older anyway having already been burned as they were deposited.

[SunkenCiv]

Since modern humans weren't in Europe 50,000 years ago...

The Replacement model advocates say that's the case, claiming that the master race emerged from Africa and sent all others into extinction.

[Varda]

The "master race" would be Homo sapiens. Neanderthals were in Europe in that time frame but I don't see anyone claiming to find Mousterian-like artifacts in the Americas.

[Tempest]

uhhhhh. . . no.

[SunkenCiv]

Not yet.

[Brainhose]

John Edwards demands that they be given a chance to vote lest they be disenfranchised.

[SunkenCiv]

;')

[ForGod'sSake]

I think it's closer to 120,000 years.

Seems you're closer than I was when discussing the major cycles or maximums. Included within these maximums are lesser cycles. For example, wasn't much of Canada and the northern U.S. covered in ice ~18,000 - 20,000 years ago? Found this interesting piece on my first google. Pics wouldn't transfer without doing the HTML thing, so this may post funnily ;^):

A New Theory of Glacial Cycles

a quick summary

Spectral analysis of climate data and orbital parameters.

For many decades it has been widely accepted that the 100 kyr cycle of the ice ages is caused by changes in the eccentricity of the Earth's orbit. However this model is contradicted by high-resolution spectral and bispectral analysis of oxygen isotopes in sea-floor cores. Nonlinear models that depend on eccentricity or the envelope of the precession curve are also ruled out. We present an alternative theory: that the climate is related to changes in the Earth's orbital inclination, and to varying extraterrestrial accretion as the orbit moves in and out of the Sun's Zodiacal ring.

Spectral analysis of 600 kyrs of global climate data is shown at right. The data show a strong peak at 100 kyr (Figures a and b) that the Milankovitch theory attributes to changes in the Earth's eccentricity (Figure c). Comparison of the data (figures a and b) with the theory (figures c and d) show that the Milankovitch hypothesis does not properly account for the data. We proposed that changes previously ignored orbital parameter, the inclination of the Earth's orbit, account for the 100 kyr cycle. The spectrum of these changes, shown in Figure e, is a good match to the data. The new theory provides an excellent match to the data, solves the "Stage-11 problem," accounts for anomolous behavior seen in noctilucent clouds and He-3 data, accounts for the structure of the bispectra, and can be further tested by looking for cycles of iridium in Greenland ice. Recent measurements of He-3 in sea floor cores appear to confirm the theory.

Doing some more snooping around...

FGS

[ForGod'sSake]

LINK

[Varda]

LOL no doubt someone will. In the end, Louie Leakey may just get one more laugh and we will all find out that our old buddy Homo erectus left all this stuff behind. (I noticed Blam already put that Calico link up)

[blam]

...that eliminates the direct Africa route."

Luzia - 2nd oldest human skeleton ever discovered in the Americas. (Arlington Springs Woman is the oldest)

[Varda]

I happen to agree that individual early Americans may have come from many parts of the globe but basically we're talking the founding population here. The genetic diversity of native Americans in general is deep enough to suggest many thousands of years of separation.

I haven't seen any reports that the population has a close genetic link to Africa. The genetic evidence is that they're related to Asians and differentiated themselves from Asia starting at most 30,000 years ago. I've also seen claims that the genetic diversity can be accounted for with only 10,000 years of separation.

[SunkenCiv]

The genetic diversity of native Americans in general is deep enough to suggest no years of separation, and constant ingress from all over -- and for that matter, local development beginning 100s of 1000s of years ago. :')

[SunkenCiv]

Overdue thanks for those additional quotes.

[SunkenCiv]

(South Carolina) Fire Pit Dated To Over 50,000 Years Old (More)
AP ^ | 11-18-2004 | Amy Geier Edgar
Posted on 11/19/2004 8:07:26 AM PST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1283899/posts

[SunkenCiv]

February 2005 bump