Kennewick man renains not protected

KING5

[djf]

The courts have rules that the remains of Kennewick man, a 9,000 year old apparent caucasian skeleton found on the north shores of the Columbia river in Washington state, are not protected by the Native Americans act and must be turned over for scientific examination.

[blam]

"I'm still diggin on that announcement about relics in Antarctica... the more I dig, the more I think something very unusual is being covered up."

What relics? These guys are very happy to announce their discoveries, I don't think they're 'hiding' anything.

[djf]

On Tues., Jan 20th, on the "Early Today" show, they showed pictures of simple stone implements they said were discovered in Antarctica. Twice, they said Antarctica. They mentioned the discovery date in the mid 1800's and said this find would push the true discovery back at least 200 years.

I have verified that one other person heard the report, and it was indeed Antarctica they were talking about.

But many emails to NBS, google searches, all the news wire searches have not shown anything.

If I have too, I will order the transcripts, but I am more interested in finding out more about the source of the story.

[Alas Babylon!]

Agreed!!! And ditto on the Antarctica relics. djf, please post a link to this!

[Alas Babylon!]

Cool. I'll search, too. But what are you doing watching the Today Show??? LoL!

[djf]

Early Today. Not the same.

[blam]

Court: Scientists Can Study Kennewick Man

By JOSEPH B. FRAZIER
Associated Press Writer
February 4, 2004, 4:18 PM EST

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Scientists can study the Kennewick Man -- 9,300-year-old remains found in Washington state -- despite the objections of some American Indian tribes, a federal appeals court ruled Wednesday.

Northwest tribes consider the bones sacred and want to bury them. But the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed with a lower court that found that federal grave-protection law does not apply because there is no evidence connecting the remains with any existing tribe.

Kennewick Man has drawn scientific interest because it is one of the oldest, most complete skeletons found in North America, with characteristics unlike modern Indians.

The bones, found in 1996 on the north bank of the Columbia River by teenagers going to a boat race, are housed at the Burke Museum at the University of Washington in Seattle.

The Army Corps of Engineers initially agreed with the tribes and seized the bones before they could be transported to the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C.

Scientists seeking to study the bones went to court to get access to them, but then-Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt ordered the remains returned to the tribes in 2000.

U.S. Magistrate John Jelderks ruled in 2002 that the remains could be studied, and a three-judge panel of the San Francisco-based appeals court agreed. The appeals court found that the remains do not fall under the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act and can be studied under the Archaeological Resources Protection Act.

The repatriation law "unambiguously requires that human remains bear some relationship to a presently existing tribe or people, or culture to be considered Native American," Judge Ronald M. Gould wrote.

The ruling said it is impossible for a tribe to demonstrate such a relationship with Kennewick Man because the remains date back before any recorded history.

Interior Department scientists concluded the remains were unlike those of any known modern Indians but it did not rule out some distant biological connection. The appeals court, however, said there must be a more recent link to justify returning the bones and preventing any scientific study.

The Umatilla, Yakama, Colville and Nez Perce tribes are seeking the remains.

[Lurking Libertarian]

the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed with a lower court that found that federal grave-protection law does not apply because there is no evidence connecting the remains with any existing tribe.

Since I argued an appeal in the 9th Circuit earlier this week, I am heartened by signs that they are not always crazy.

[Lurking Libertarian]

Full text of the court's decision available here.

[blam]

"Since I argued an appeal in the 9th Circuit earlier this week, I am heartened by signs that they are not always crazy."

I watched the sentiment on this subject when the Smithonian came out in favor of the scientists. The Smithsonian put their prestige and money behind this effort...prior to that, the scientists were losing left and right.

[shamusotoole]

We do not know that it is not a Caucasoid skeleton. Physionomic studies of the skull and dentition seemed to indicate it was most similar to Jo man/Ainu or Polynesian examples. If you have been following other threads on this site, that was what was thought of the Windover Bog People, until DNA samples were taken and were determined to have "European" markers.

We have been following the evidence with great interest. No one is harboring a "gotcha" type attitude and the prehistorical saga of Man in the Americas will certainly take twists and turns that none could have predicted.

[Spunky]

djf & Blam, I have a habit of sleeping with my radio ear phones on and about a month or so ago I woke up hearing something about archeological finds that could be evidence of a civilization having lived there. In my half state of sleep I heard Artic. Now it could have been Antartic. I kept listening for more but never heard anything after that.

I just did a Google search though and this is what I found.

Dinosaur hunters make new Antarctic finds

Associated Press

ROCK ISLAND, Ill. — Bundled in fleece and hacking away with drills, jackhammers and dynamite, dinosaur hunters have carved another 200 million-year-old jigsaw puzzle out of a frozen, wind-swept Antarctic mountain.

But it could be a year or more before the Illinois-led expedition team knows whether the rock-encased puzzle pieces can match its earlier prehistoric find — a previously unknown species that also was the first dinosaur ever found on Antarctica's mainland.

Augustana College paleontologist William Hammer, who led both trips to the ice-covered continent, suspects the fossils found last month are from an early ancestor of the brontosaurus, among the best-known dinosaurs because of its long neck and massive body.

"But it's like a jigsaw puzzle. We have to get it back here and get the rock off the bones. Then we can tell not only what kind of bones they are but what kinds of animals they're from," said Hammer, who has made seven research trips to Antarctica............
New Antarctic finds

[elli1]

And ditto on the Antarctica relics.

Didn't see the show, but I'm betting that the newsreader screwed up & meant to say ''Arctic''. There has been some recent news about discoveries in Siberia (or Russia).

[djf]

I hear ya and know what you're saying, but then, they would not have mentioned a discovery date in the mid 1800's. I have sent multiple emails to NBC and MSNBC to at least get some idea about it, but none were returned or answered. And it seems to me that if they report a news story, they have some sort of responsibility about it, to either provide more info, or fess up it was a mistake.

[blam]

Thanks. I believe 'djf' was meaning human relics/artifacts.

[Spunky]

"I had always understood that the Clintonoids buried the remains under a lot of stuff....."

No they did not bury the skeleton. They buried the site in order to keep anyone from doing anymore digging there.

From my profile page.

The site where Kennewick Man was discovered in July 1996 is overgrown with vegetation in July 1998, four months after the Army Corps of Engineers covered the area with dirt and burlap.
Herald/Bob Brawdy
I live right across the Columbia River from this site. Scientists wanted to be able to study the area further, before the Army Corp of Engineers covered the site over. So our Congressman, Doc Hastings entered a bill to put a stop to the Army Corps covering of the site. The bill passed in the House and in the Senate, but before the vote could be recorded the Army Corp of Engineers (by someones directive) went ahead and covered the site with rocks, burlap, and vegetation so that no one will ever be able to go in and study the site

[blam]

"There has been some recent news about discoveries in Siberia (or Russia)."

Yup. That was my first thought too. Lots of recent 'discoveries' in Siberia.

[Spunky]

"I believe 'djf' was meaning human relics/artifacts."

I know thats what he meant. I was just posting the only article I found that has anything being found recently in Antartica.

[elli1]

Ya, you would think, esp. w/ MSNBC, which only has about 6 or 7 viewers to start with. What you're describing may be the Siberian find; IIRC this was a second site & there had been an earlier discovery (how much earlier I don't recall). Stone tools & civilization on Antartica just sounds highly improbable.

[elli1]

Yup. That was my first thought too. Lots of recent 'discoveries' in Siberia.

Not only that, but the old discoveries that get forgotten or never got much (or any) press (like the red-headed mummy in China that I think you posted a link to.)

[blam]

"Not only that, but the old discoveries that get forgotten or never got much (or any) press (like the red-headed mummy in China that I think you posted a link to.)"

The Curse Of The Red Headed Mummy

You wouldn't believe all that I've learned studying this subject.

If you're interested in learning more about the Chinese Mummies, Read, The Tarim Mummies by Victor Mair and The Mummies Of Urumchi by Elizabeth Barber.

I would be the least suprised if, when they finally open the tomb of the First Emperor Of China (Chi'in), that a tall red headed guy is found.