Posted on 04/06/2013 10:46:39 AM PDT by ReformationFan
Believing the truth about hell also motivates us to persuade people to be reconciled to God. By God’s grace those of us who are trusting Christ have been rescued from this horrible destiny. How can we love people and refuse to speak plainly to them about the realities of eternal damnation and God’s gracious provision of salvation? Clearer visions of hell will give us greater love for both God and people.
“There is one very serious defect to my mind in Christ’s moral character, and that is that He believed in hell.” So wrote the agnostic British philosopher Bertrand Russell in 1967. The idea of eternal punishment for sin, he further notes, is “a doctrine that put cruelty in the world and gave the world generations of cruel torture.”
His views are at least more consistent than religious philosopher John Hick, who refers to hell as a “grim fantasy” that is not only “morally revolting” but also “a serious perversion of the Christian Gospel.” Worse yet was theologian Clark Pinnock who, despite having regarded himself as an evangelical, dismissed hell with a rhetorical question: “How can one imagine for a moment that the God who gave His Son to die for sinners because of His great love for them would install a torture chamber somewhere in the new creation in order to subject those who reject Him to everlasting pain?”
So, what should we think of hell? Is the idea of it really responsible for all the cruelty and torture in the world? Is the doctrine of hell incompatible with the way of Jesus Christ? Hardly. In fact, the most prolific teacher of hell in the Bible is Jesus, and He spoke more about it than He did about heaven.
(Excerpt) Read more at theaquilareport.com ...
Hades, colloquially referenced as hell, was the Greek name for the location of the underworld or the realm of the dead.
Sheol refers to a place of the soul.
4 compartments are spoken of in Scripture regarding Hades/Sheol.
1)Abraham’s Bosom, also known as Paradise, as the location where all Old Testament believers went after the first death. (They later are recorded in Acts as ascending in the same period as Christ)
2) The Torments, where human unbelievers were sent.
3) Tartarus, prison for the fallen angels of Gen6, 1Pet 3, Jud6.
4) The Abyss, location of criminal angel imprisonment until the Great Tribulation.
The Lake of Fire is a different location than these above. It is the final destination of those after the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers, not to be confused with the bema seat judgment for Church Age believers.
[[NDE are generally experiences wherein the human spirit is separate from the body.]]
How do we nkow? How do we know they aren’t simply misfirings i nthe brain? I beleive everythign I experienced was due to what was goign on aroudn me and to my high fever and misinterpetting what I was experiencing and hearing- I was dosued on cold icewater, wet towels (which coudl have accouted for my feelign like I was beign buried by suffocating sand) I’m sure the doc was asking me questions which I coudl have misinterpeted- perhaps the doc was the oen saying ‘count the sounds’ I don’t know-
I’m not diuscounting either hypothesis- I simpyl do not nkow- but I do feel very strongly that whaty I personally expeinced was not my spirit leavign my body but rather a fever induced lucid vision fueld by misintrepreation of what I was hearing and feeling
Some NDE have included memories of rising up above the body, through suspended acoustical ceilings, and observing manufacturer’s serial numbers on light fixtures above the ceiling, which upon waking, were investigated and verified as the same numbers, which none of those involved were cognizant they even existing before the NDE.
Others are similar to dreams which are vivid, including vibrations, color, sounds, smells, touch, and taste, which were not present in their physical environment.
Many of these might be better confined to soulish operations vice spiritual operations.
Spiritual perceptions also influence the soul, but vary dependent upon the spiritual gift given to each believer, which may be quite distinctive from other believers’ spiritual gifts.
Such experiences are reported as indeed being very real, just as real as any other perception, but also involving other persons.
I would recommend keeping it simple.
If there were details in your dream/experience not previously known to you, they likely were introduced by a second person. That person may have been an angel, elect of fallen is unknown. Even familiar spirits are discouraged from entering our influence, so it is wise to test the spirits.
For me, Hell is in the Bible for two reasons:
1. It helps to know your tormentors aren’t going to end up in the same place you are.
2. Power sometimes gives people the idea that things will always be the way they are. In fact the only worthwhile thing my Lutheran priest regarded the power of Rome.
Most Roman roads were marked by a stone symbol of the goddess Nike (goddess of victory). The stone carving was in the shape of an upside down acute triangle, with the long angle of the sculpted sign pointing the way down the road.
It’s from that stone sign that the very recognizable corporate symbol came for the manufacturer Nike. (The swoosh).
He said that never would it have been imagined that these symbols of Roman victory would be replaced by the Crucifix, but it has been.
Hell is there to remind the very pissed off that anything we could dream up in the way of retribution couldn’t come close to what God may have in store. It’s there to remind us that no earthly power lasts forever.
It’s there to remind us that Salvation is a gift, and not a capitulation, or act of weakness.
Hell isn’t a loaded gun pointed at everybody’s temple’s.
The deal is this - Love Him or don’t. It’s your choice.
God’s not a rapist. If you love Him, He’ll love you back. If you don’t love God, He doesn’t have to love you, though He’d prefer it.
Not everybody makes it to the next round. The frustration within me, and perhaps in many others, is that we know so little about the nature of the conflict. Some can accept that we don’t know, and go along with the plan. Others resent not knowing, and as such, act accordingly.
If we knew the entire nature of the conflict, I’m not sure our belief would be voluntary any more. Certainly, based on the empirical evidence, Hell, obviously, isn’t scary enough to make Salvation the obvious course.
Don’t worry, I’m with you.
That's not what I'm saying at all. You've got it backwards.
Jesus did not came to save us so we wouldn't go to hell. He came to save us so we could go to heaven.
The distinction is a subtle one, but one that makes all the difference.
What you're saying is that we should marry the nice person so we don't have to marry the mean one. What we should be doing is marrying the nice person because we love her/him and want to spend our lives with her/him.
See the difference?
When we die, we can only go to one of two places --heaven or hell. By not choosing to love God, we are, by default choosing to not love Him. Because we choose to not love God, we are turning our back on Him. Because we have turned our back on Him, he has no choice but to leave us to our fate.
If we love God and accept His give through Jesus we show God that we want to live our eternity with Him. But, if we choose to not love Him, He has no choice but to let us go to hell because we have chosen to spend our eternal life with someone other than Him.
[[which none of those involved were cognizant they even existing before the NDE.]]
How do we know that theu were not observed by the patient subconsciously? Via reflection? There’s no way to verify the patient didn’;t infact glimpse the number via mirror, or reflective surface, and simpyl ‘dre4am’ with htat number popping up-
[[Others are similar to dreams which are vivid, including vibrations, color, sounds, smells, touch, and taste, which were not present in their physical environment.]
All of which can’t be verified scientifically- we simpyl have to take hteir word for it- just liek hte ‘ghost hunters’ which ‘feel liek htey were touched’ or who ‘smell soemthign funky’ we the auedience can’t actually verify their ‘evidence’
[[If there were details in your dream/experience not previously known to you, they likely were introduced by a second person.]]
That’s the rub- all of it was ‘previosuly known by me’ as beign a realit6y of hell (the torture/suffocation torment etc) the physical torment- and I’d read and seen many depictiosn of hell via artist’s depictions- and I simpyl beleive these previous familiarities with hte writings and paintings etc
I’ll admit hte numers on the light fixtures IS a tough one to explain- although it is not outside the realm of possibility that it actually was seen and stored i nte subconscious
[[
The word FOREKNOW ?
It has nothing to do with God knowing those who would get saved, and not saved.
How can God ? see down the tunnel of time ?]]
If God can’t see donw the tunel of time, then He could not have phophesied throuigh the prophets, nor directly foretold what was goign to happen to Israel-
[[Predestination means God before anything was created, time was created, before the earth was created God chose those who would be saved in Christ,]]
It can’t mean that- IF it means that hten ‘free will’ is a fake term- there is no such thign as free will- We know however by experience nd by Godf’s word that free will deoes exist- it HAS to exist otherwise therir coudl be no such thign as love- you can’t love soemthign you are forced to accept- if however you have a free will chocie to love or hate soemthign, you CHOOSE FREELY to do one or the other— just as a man CHOOSES to love a woman- IF he were forced to love her- it woudl be nothign more than an empty predestiend ritual devoid of choice and love- It’s the same with good and evil- if we are simply chosen to do evil or good- their is NO choice- the choice has already been made for us- and one can NOT be truly good by choice of their own- so really, evil wouldn’t even be needed- When a person CHOOSES to turn from evil to God, that person is FREELY CHOOSING to love God and to no logner be at enmity with Him— That is TRUE love- not soem forced empty love-
I think the heart of a man who has murdered thousands of unborn babies is not a pure heart...
I suspect he would hear the words “Get away from Me, you worker of iniquity.”
Ed
Oh, of course...I totally believe that.
Anyone who is sorry for their sins will find forgiveness in Jesus.
Ed
I’m not talking about a man repented of his sins, I’m talking about an abortion activist, one who ardently, ferociously and unrepentedly murdered many thousands of unborn babies and called it good...
I don’t think Jesus greeted him with open arms, any more than He greeted Joseph Mengele with open arms...
Ed
I totally believe that...if Hitler prayed a sorrowful prayer of repentance the Bible says he is forgiven.
What I’m talking about are people who are in open, defiant, willful sin, like the murder of unborn babies, who see nothing wrong with what they are doing...I don’t know if they go straight up to Heaven regardless of what their sins were, because they believe in Jesus Christ.
Jane Fonda says she’s a Christian, yet she is an activist for abortion....as is Nancy Pelosi. Do you think they will go to Heaven, when they are responsible for the promotion of abortion as a sacrament?
How do we reconcile Jesus saying it’s better for a person to have never been born than for them to be responsible for the suffering of a child, with the belief that He will welcome Nancy Pelosi with open arms...a person directly responsible for the culture of death in this country?
Ed
You might be right, Fish Hawk...I’m no theologian.
Thanks,
Ed
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