4 Truths About Hell Is the doctrine of hell incompatible with the way of Jesus Christ?

The Aquila Report ^ | 4-6-13 | Tom Ascol

[American Constitutionalist]

Sometimes I get a little winded and go on a preaching journey.
It happens.
Sometimes I am not preaching at the person I am writing to, but, rather at those " LAW PREACHERS " ....

It happens, sorry my friend.

Be ye encouraged, and be ye comforted.

[American Constitutionalist]

Yes, I see what you are saying.

We got 2 tickets to paridise... Jesus paid it all.

We bring nothing to God, but God brought everything to us.

Love the old hymm : Rock of Ages.


Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee;
let the water and the blood,
from thy wounded side which flowed,
be of sin the double cure;
save from wrath and make me pure.

Not the labors of my hands
can fulfill thy law's commands;
could my zeal no respite know,
could my tears forever flow,
all for sin could not atone;
thou must save, and thou alone.

Nothing in my hand I bring,
simply to the cross I cling;
naked, come to thee for dress;
helpless, look to thee for grace;
foul, I to the fountain fly;
wash me, Savior, or I die.

While I draw this fleeting breath,
when mine eyes shall close in death,
when I soar to worlds unknown,
see thee on thy judgment throne,
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee.




When I stand before the judgement throne,

All I have in my life or hands is nothing,

The only thing I can offer God is the gift he freely gave to me,

His son and sacrifice Jesus Christ.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

We bring nothing to God, but God brought everything to us.

Not a flame, just a comment.

We bring to God what he desires most from us --our love.

If I may offer a small snippet of scripture that illustrates my point:

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

[American Constitutionalist]

Actually ? in man's compacity ? human weakness ?

Man could never love God in it's fullness or in the way God wants man to love him.

Rather ?

Boast about the love that God has for you.

Here in is love in it's purest form.

Not that we love God, nor can we ever love God back in the way that he intends for us to love him.

1 John 4:10:

In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

I am not even going to try to love God in the way that he intends for me to love him, because God knows very well that I fail him.

God knows full well of our weakness.

Rather ? I keep my heart and eye on God's love for me.

Now people will say " that preposterous " ... really ? is it ? if people were truely honest ?

Peter boasted about his love for Jesus, and Jesus even told Peter that Peter would deny him 3 times.

I know, I know, the commandment " thou shall love the lord with all thy heart, all thy mind, and all thy soul "

Did Israel always love God in the way that he intended for them to love him ?

Nope.

And what about the bible passages " The disiple that Jesus loved ".

John the disiple understood it, he realized Jesus's love for him.

And ? he was the only one left standing at the cross, or ran away.

Many things, that God does is counter intuitive to our fallen human nature.

People will say " but, but, but, God tells us to love him "

Focus on the love that God has for you ? and you will find yourself loving God in the way that he intended.

It's that simple.


Not that we loved God, but God loved us first and sent his son as a offering for us to take away our sins, i.e. condemnation.

[American Constitutionalist]

Yes, of course we still have a free will, but, it's still not free.

The free will that mankind enjoyed was untainted, uncorrupted before the fall.

Many think that man still has a " free will " but, he does not, anymore since the fall.

Those who are unsaved are under the bondage and control of the prince of the air, the ruler of darkness, the god of this world.

Even Jesus said, that a man can't serve 2 masters.
People are either serving God ? or this world, and the prince, or god who controls this world.

Free will in it's true and purest form was truly free will before the fall.

Yes, people still have that free will to chose, but, it's under the influence of another.

Either people are influenced by the holy spirit, or the prince of the air, the god of this world.

The free will that mankind has today is corrupted, and tainted.

[American Constitutionalist]

What about the Apostle Paul ?

He murdered many Christians and persecuted the church.

[American Constitutionalist]

Yes, that is all true, but, even in our human weakness our love to him is tainted.

Not that we loved God ? but ? rather ? that he loved us first.

[Sir_Ed]

Paul then realized he was wrong.

Abortionists who loudly proclaim how right, justified and sacred abortion is are NOT repentant of murdering babies.

Big difference!

Ed

[Cvengr]

How do we know that theu were not observed by the patient subconsciously? Via reflection? There’s no way to verify the patient didn’;t infact glimpse the number via mirror, or reflective surface, and simpyl ‘dre4am’ with htat number popping up.

Perhaps I didn't clearly report the phenomenon. The serial number on the light fixtures was above the ceiling. The ceiling was sealed, no reflections. Nobody even knew about serial numbers being there. The knowledge was perceived as directly as one observing them directly, only during the dream/OBE.

[CottShop]

[[Free will in it’s true and purest form was truly free will before the fall.

Yes, people still have that free will to chose, but, it’s under the influence of another.]]

How so? So we can blame all our bad chocies on someoen or soemthign else then? “Couldn’t help it your honor- I was predestined to commit this crime- therefore I’m innocent since I didn’t have free will to choose not to’?

[[Either people are influenced by the holy spirit, or the prince of the air,]]

Again- You are sayign that all our choices are no logner our responsibility because we don’t have ‘true free will’ anyl onger after the fall? If thatr’s the case, then The God of Justice has no right convicting us of anyhting because we are not acting on our own free will-

[[Even Jesus said, that a man can’t serve 2 masters.]]

That’s true- BUT we get to FREELY CHOOSE which master we will be subsetrvient to AND we still have the free will choice durign any time to choose right or wrong- We don’t lose free will- ever- otherwise there woudl be no need of a justice system- Everythign woudl ust automatically b3e blamed on either God or Satan

[fatima]

Are you for real.Jesus committed suicide.You are one weird Dude.

[OneWingedShark]

Are you for real.Jesus committed suicide.You are one weird Dude.

1. Did he come to Earth to die for our sins?
2. Did he know he would die when he came?
3. Did he admit that it was his own will to do so?
   

If 'yes' to all of these then he knowingly and willingly ended his own life, therefore fitting the dictionary definition.

If you disagree with #1 then you disagree with the basic tenant of Christianity.
If you disagree with #2 then you deny that he had/has foreknowledge. (Leading to interesting theological troubles in John 1.)
If you disagree with #3 then you are calling either Jesus a liar, or St. John a false- or unreliable-witness.

[fatima]

Oh My God.

[OneWingedShark]

Oh My God.

I notice you did not refute any of the given points.

But in any case it's not inconsistent with God's character: He being a just God cannot live with sin, but being a loving God [loving us, who are made in His own image, which He loves] he could not simply destroy us all -- so He died, freeing us from sin -- but He is greater than Death, and came back from the dead... it is this resurrection that gives the christian hope, not the Death; the Death only frees us from sin's clutches... it is the Resurrection that is the Life, and Jesus is the Resurrection. And the Truth. And the Life.

[fatima]

Goodbye.

[American Constitutionalist]

It's still our free choice, but it's tainted by the fall since the garden of Eden.

That " Free will or Free choice " was pure in it's purest form before the fall.

Since then ? even when man is given the choice to chose good over evil ? man, as in the nature of man still choses to do evil.

That free will or free choice is influenced by another, history proves that out.

IF ? if there is any inheirent good in any individual ? it was given to them by God.

There is no inheirent good in mankind, the bible proves that out.

[American Constitutionalist]

Even if we are influenced to do good or evil, it's still our choice and it still leaves us with personal responsiblity.

The devil or his demons can influence someone, but ? that's still a person's choice to do so.
Same thing with someone who is influenced to do good or God's will by being influenced by the holy spirit.
Now ? when someone does something for God by the influence of the holy spirit God get's the glory.

[American Constitutionalist]

I agree with you.

They have no princibles, and have no qualms about doing it.
I recently heard a preacher say, you know how you know your saved ? born again ?

You realize you struggle with the flesh, or sin, where as ? before you got saved you didn't have a problem doing it or didn't even notice it.

[CottShop]

[[The devil or his demons can influence someone, but ? that’s still a person’s choice to do so.]]

That’s pretty much what I’ve been saying-

[American Constitutionalist]

Yes, it's a commandment, but, if all were honest and truthful ?

We all fall short of that and God knows that.
( the self righteious folk would have you to think other wise, and guess what ? it stinks in God's nose )



The remedy to those verses you gave me ?

God provides.

God rules with Love, Grace Provides, and Faith takes.


Yes, God commanded us to love him with all our heart, mind, and soul, but, we fall short of that.
( for all have sinned and have fallen short to the glory of GOD ).


In our weakness ? he is made strong.


1 John 4:10:

In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.


The pride of man says " I can do it, what can I I I I I do "

And that therein is the problem.
( MAN's PRIDE )

That therein is what God has to get us to understand and realize, is that ?

We fall short to God's standards, but God didn't leave us as orphans, God didn't leave us without a way out of our mess or predicament.


Why you say ?

Because God is love and God loves us so much, that he sent his son to die the death that we deserved, but we didn't, i.e. God's grace.


You see ?

The law ?

The Commandments ?

As Adam and Eve chose to take and eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil they chose to rely on keeping the law,

And ?
Not rely on God's grace alone, for Jesus is the tree of life.

God never forbide Adam and Even to partake of the tree of life.

Jesus said that he was the bread of life.


So ?

Since Adam and Even thought that they knew better by partaking of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil they had their eyes opened,

but ?


In reality ? they were spiritually dead.



Paul says that the preaching of the letter of the law that was written on stones ( the 10 Commandments ) is the ministery of death.... dead is dead.


Now you understand why God said that the day that you eat thereof of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil ( i.e. the law ) you shall surely die.

It was the law, knowing what is good and evil.

Isn't that what Paul tells us ?

The Law was given to us to show us what sin, sin is.. as in , what is ... IS.


The law ?

It showed us our sins, transgrations, that we sinned against a holy, righteious, just GOD.

Paul even said that if it was not for the law I would not have known what sin is.

Before the law ?

As Paul said, I was alive before the law , but when the law came ? I died.


The law was not intended to make any man rightieous or justified in the sight of God.


It's what makes all of us guilty before GOD.
( ALL ARE GUILTY BEFORE GOD, no one can boast before GOD ).

The law showed us that we needed help, a savoir, someone to save us, for if we could save ourselves ? we would not have need of a savoir.


In the book of Gal it says that the law was our school master to keep us until the Messiah came.


Now ?


The law preachers ( hath God said, for they want people to partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil all over again ) will go on and say that " ohh we get it, now we can sin as much as we can and get away with it, right ? "


As Paul said ? " OF COURSE NOT ! GOD FORBID IT ! "


No, what it actually means ?


The only one ( the annointed one , i.e. Christ ) who could have fullfill all the law as far as God's strict standards is concerned was ?

Only Jesus Christ, i.e. Christ means, the annointed one.


He didn't come to do away with the law, but to fullfill every demand of it.


So ?


Those who have already placed their life, trust, hope, faith in Jesus Christ in God's eyes has fullfilled the law to it's utter most.


That's what it means, it does not mean to break the law, or sin as much as we want.


Now we can get back to the discussion at hand.

The law says : that we must love GOD with all our hearts, minds, and souls,

But ?

The only one ( the annointed one, i.e. Christ ) who could have ever meet that demand was Jesus Christ.


Now since we are in Christ ?

We have as a gift that righteiousness, holiness, jusification IN CHRIST only.


For we are the righteiousness of God in Christ Jesus.


As God said, BE, not try to, or try to do, but, be, being means, a status, a state.
Be ye holy for I am holy.
Those who are in Jesus Christ as God's gift to them, God see's them in the state of being holy already, a state of already being justified.