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4 Truths About Hell Is the doctrine of hell incompatible with the way of Jesus Christ?
The Aquila Report ^ | 4-6-13 | Tom Ascol

Posted on 04/06/2013 10:46:39 AM PDT by ReformationFan

Believing the truth about hell also motivates us to persuade people to be reconciled to God. By God’s grace those of us who are trusting Christ have been rescued from this horrible destiny. How can we love people and refuse to speak plainly to them about the realities of eternal damnation and God’s gracious provision of salvation? Clearer visions of hell will give us greater love for both God and people.

“There is one very serious defect to my mind in Christ’s moral character, and that is that He believed in hell.” So wrote the agnostic British philosopher Bertrand Russell in 1967. The idea of eternal punishment for sin, he further notes, is “a doctrine that put cruelty in the world and gave the world generations of cruel torture.”

His views are at least more consistent than religious philosopher John Hick, who refers to hell as a “grim fantasy” that is not only “morally revolting” but also “a serious perversion of the Christian Gospel.” Worse yet was theologian Clark Pinnock who, despite having regarded himself as an evangelical, dismissed hell with a rhetorical question: “How can one imagine for a moment that the God who gave His Son to die for sinners because of His great love for them would install a torture chamber somewhere in the new creation in order to subject those who reject Him to everlasting pain?”

So, what should we think of hell? Is the idea of it really responsible for all the cruelty and torture in the world? Is the doctrine of hell incompatible with the way of Jesus Christ? Hardly. In fact, the most prolific teacher of hell in the Bible is Jesus, and He spoke more about it than He did about heaven.

(Excerpt) Read more at theaquilareport.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; heaven; hell; jesuschrist; tomascol
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1 posted on 04/06/2013 10:46:39 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Yeshua made it plain what would happen to those he never knew.

They cannot blame him; it is their own rejection of him that condemns them.


2 posted on 04/06/2013 10:52:16 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: ReformationFan

I just pray that, as the Lord desires for everyone to be saved, His will may be done, and hopefully few will end up in such a horrible place.


3 posted on 04/06/2013 10:56:32 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: ReformationFan
Hell is real. Most of us are going there. The only place that I vary from the aforementioned doctrine being that after the sinner has undergone sufficient punishment, which balances his deeds, God will totally destroy him. Total annihilation being the "Second Death" mentioned in the bible.
4 posted on 04/06/2013 11:00:41 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: ReformationFan

Here’s a question for everyone: If Christian kills himself, will he go to Hell?


5 posted on 04/06/2013 11:01:04 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: ReformationFan

I consider it one of the separating factors between God and Jesus (which as a trinitarian, I believe are simulataneously the same and separate entities).

God is not the forgiver, Jesus is.

God sends you to hell. Jesus does not.

If you view God as an omnipotent, generally detached entity and Jesus as being one that understands and cares for man, then it starts to make more sense.

Do we care for the fire ants that we toss poison on so they stop biting our feet? Not really. In fact, not at all.


6 posted on 04/06/2013 11:02:31 AM PDT by TheZMan (Buy more ammo.)
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To: ReformationFan
The question should be ?

The doctrine or shall I say, the false teaching of ALL will be saved.

Opps !! sorry rich man in the gosple who would not even give Lazarious even a morsal of food or drink.

Yes, make no mistake about it, that rich man yearned to even get a taste of water on his tounge... but, he went to hell and torment.

He could see over a wide gulf Lazerious in the heart of Abraham, and in paradise and wanted to warm his own family of Hell and Torment.

Now back to the question at hand, will ALL be saved ?

Those who believe that ALL will be saved will have to reconcile what Jesus taught, in that he talked about those who would be cast out into outer darkness, gnashing their teeth.

7 posted on 04/06/2013 11:02:49 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

Hmm. First death is a physical death. Second death is a spiritual death. As best as I’ve been able to glean, that death is being thrown into fire everlasting. It wouldn’t make sense to be “destroyed” if the fire was everlasting.


8 posted on 04/06/2013 11:04:01 AM PDT by TheZMan (Buy more ammo.)
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To: editor-surveyor
" Yeshua made it plain what would happen to those he never knew. "

Those in whom he knew... i.e. who got saved, born again, those who were chosen IN CHRIST before the foundations of the world.

i.e. predestination.
9 posted on 04/06/2013 11:04:51 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: ReformationFan
Why did there have to be any description of hell in the bible? It seems that it's primary purpose would be to frighten people into accepting Jesus, which wouldn't seem to be a legitimate reason to accept Christ. So why not just leave hell out of the bible rather than seemingly use it as a sort of emotional blackmail to accept Christ.
10 posted on 04/06/2013 11:04:54 AM PDT by bramps (Sarah Palin got more votes in 2008 than Mitt Romney got in 2012)
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To: ReformationFan
A very thorough and sometimes humorous explanation of the mainstream doctrine of Hell.

Non-Dante - The Biblical Truth About Hell

11 posted on 04/06/2013 11:07:33 AM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: American Constitutionalist

Predestination is where we naturally land when trying to understand the verses you’ve mentioned because we can’t fathom that concept any other way - but predestination cannot be the case. Perhaps being not limited by time it was known whether we would make the choice or not before we made it. It was still our choice to make, however.


12 posted on 04/06/2013 11:09:28 AM PDT by TheZMan (Buy more ammo.)
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To: BenLurkin

NO...but of course most Christians wouldn’t consider that.

You could say it’s murder...be another individual or oneself...it’s taking a life...just as in abortion.

All of which are covered and forgiven if they are in Christ....but woe to them before they do the deed...


13 posted on 04/06/2013 11:11:01 AM PDT by caww
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To: BenLurkin
the answer is NO. If a Christian steals will he go to hell? NO. If he commits adultery will he go to hell, NO. It is not the degree of sin that sends someone to hell, BUT for this one sin: rejecting what God's Son did for you on that Cross. Yes, that cross that had your sins (all of them large and small) nailed to it. God's question to you will have nothing to do with sin as they died on that cross with Christ. God's question to you will not mention sin at all (they don't exist anymore) but will be: what did you do with what my son did for you on that cross. Any one who does not understand this, does not know Bible doctrine.
14 posted on 04/06/2013 11:13:05 AM PDT by fish hawk (no tyrant can remain in power without the consent and cooperation of his victims.)
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To: BenLurkin
Here’s a question for everyone: If Christian kills himself, will he go to Hell?

In a very real sense Jesus killed himself, after all he said: "I lay my life down, nobody takes it from me, but I lay it down willingly." (John 10:18)
So, if (a) the death of Jesus was suicide; (b) Jesus was a man [fully human]; and (c) Jesus is/will-be in heaven, then it cannot be said that everyone who kills themselves will be in hell.

15 posted on 04/06/2013 11:14:31 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: ReformationFan
The idea of eternal punishment for sin, he further notes, is “a doctrine that put cruelty in the world and gave the world generations of cruel torture.”

Don't mean to make light of such a deep subject that we really know very little about. But my reaction in reading this ... is ... what if a person chooses to suffer? We hear a lot about choice. If people are told they have a choice to live in the big house or live outside and they choose outside who am I to judge :-) Of course the deeper problem is there are people - past, present, future - who really aren't clearly presented with this choice. so I find that part of the doctrine to be difficult. Where I come out is ... I don't know what happens to those people. All I know is they are not with God.

16 posted on 04/06/2013 11:15:30 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: bramps

LOL, so you think that “jail” or the death penalty should not be mentioned to criminals. come on , wake up.


17 posted on 04/06/2013 11:16:41 AM PDT by fish hawk (no tyrant can remain in power without the consent and cooperation of his victims.)
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To: bramps
There are many things in the Bible we may not like....but it does not make them less true for it.

why define fear as a bad thing...it's healthy to have fear when appropriate. ...it protects, warns and lets us know we likely need to change direction.

God would have all to be saved and be with Him...that's His plan. He finds no pleasure whatsoever in the death of the wicked....rather that they would come to Him thru Christ and be in eternity with Him...but it's a choice.

The choice is to be with God or eternally forever separated from God.....and it's a choice of each individual.

18 posted on 04/06/2013 11:16:49 AM PDT by caww
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To: plain talk

No one is condemned to hell that has not heard the story and had the chance to accept or reject. Says so right there in the book.


19 posted on 04/06/2013 11:17:00 AM PDT by TheZMan (Buy more ammo.)
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To: plain talk

I’m sure we can trust God knows those people who have not the ability nor have heard the Gospel....should they die...He will surely make the right call concerning them. He made them, he assuredly knows them far more then we.

I think , though, the question really is about if God is good or not...not so much what about the people. After all He is the creator...so the question really is how and who do we see God as.


20 posted on 04/06/2013 11:20:48 AM PDT by caww
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To: BenLurkin

Good question. As a Presbyterian, I believe in the perseverance of the saints and that once someone is truly saved, God brings his salvation to completion and he does not lose it based upon John 10:25-30. So I think the answer to your question would most likely be no. However, I do not have a specific proof-text stating that a true Christian believer who commits suicide definitely goes to Heaven.


21 posted on 04/06/2013 11:21:38 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: fish hawk

I believe in the death penalty. I also believe God does.


22 posted on 04/06/2013 11:21:52 AM PDT by caww
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To: TheZMan

That’s the old foreknowledge versus predestination debate. There was and is foreknowledge, that is unavoidable by any honest reader of scripture. Predestination is an extension of foreknowledge that may or may not have an element of truth. It’s a belief derived from scripture elevated to doctrine by some, whereas foreknowledge is scriptural fact not in dispute.

I’ve got family on both sides of that one and have heard it all my life. I don’t like some of the implications of predestination and am much more disposed to free will. But, due to there being some apparent scriptural support for predestination, I won’t argue against it though my heart says otherwise as do other passages of scripture.

Any apparent contradiction is due to faulty understanding on our part, imho.


23 posted on 04/06/2013 11:22:09 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
" Hell is real. Most of us are going there. The only place that I vary from the aforementioned doctrine being that after the sinner has undergone sufficient punishment, which balances his deeds "


The only one way ticket from going to hell is placing your trust, hope, life and soul in the only way God planed it.

GRACE, and GRACE ALONE.

Jesus Christ, " I am THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE, no man can come to the father, but by me "

A unsaved sinner, those in whom have not accepted, or believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their savlation will be punished for their sins.

Remember ? It's the blood atonement, nothing else, that God wants, and sees.

Jesus Christ, behold, the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

Jesus Christ, the " PASS OVER LAMB "


Those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ?

The bible tells us that we were crucifided in Christ, with Christ, buried with Christ, and once and for all rose with Christ.

All our sins, those who are in Christ " HAVE BEEN " already have been punished in another, another body, the body of Christ.

Our sins have been punished by God if you are in christ.
God's judgement has passed over you.

So now ? when God looks at you ? you have fullfilled all of the law, since Jesus Christ fullfilled ALL of the law.
Romans chapter 8 verse 1

Therefore, there is now condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Before someone says " yeah, but it warns those who are waling in the flesh " ....

Yes, the flesh can also mean, sins, lust, so on and so on, but, those are the fruits of walking in the flesh.

What does Paul mean here by walking in the flesh ?

Is ? Human effort... carnal means, fleshly, meaty.
That's were we get the word, Carniverious.... i.e. carnal.

To walk in the flesh means, human reasoning, human self righteiousness, human self efforts without the help from God and God's holy spirit..... a religious persons .. i.e. Keeping the law thinking it will win your salvation.

Walking in the spirit ?
Walking in the spirit of grace.

And anyone who thinks that all of this is gibberish ?
You are walking in the carnality of your mind, and not walking in the spirit of Grace.
For the natural mind can not and will not understand the things of the spirit of God.
24 posted on 04/06/2013 11:22:24 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: ReformationFan

It’s a hell of an easy choice.


25 posted on 04/06/2013 11:23:35 AM PDT by right way right (What's it gonna take? (guillotines?))
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To: bramps

re: “Why did there have to be any description of hell in the bible? It seems that it’s primary purpose would be to frighten people into accepting Jesus, which wouldn’t seem to be a legitimate reason to accept Christ. So why not just leave hell out of the bible rather than seemingly use it as a sort of emotional blackmail to accept Christ.”

Good question. Look at it this way, if hell exists, NOT telling mankind about how to avoid it would be against God’s character. He tells us exactly how serious sin is by what Jesus endured on the cross, the death he died, the burial he experienced - sin separates us from God. Sin is a choice we make. The ultimate sin is rejecting Jesus, Who is God in the flesh, Who took our just punishment. He endured the death and punishment we deserved Himself in our behalf.

If we reject His provision, we face the ultimate consequences ourselves.

We don’t consider it illegitimate when a doctor informs us the truth about our medical condition and the consequences if we choose to refuse the treatment/cure for that condition. We shouldn’t consider it illegitimate if God informs us of our true spiritual condition and the ultimate consequences of that condition if we refuse His cure.


26 posted on 04/06/2013 11:24:51 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: right way right

Thinking Pascal’s Wager here.

Is it not better to believe in Hell, so that even if there isn’t one...so what?


27 posted on 04/06/2013 11:25:35 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: TheZMan

The unsaved man or woman since Adam and Eve fell is already “ Spiritually dead “.


28 posted on 04/06/2013 11:27:35 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: bramps
" Why did there have to be any description of hell in the bible? "

The wages of sin is death.

Hell is the end destination for those who reject Jesus Christ and God's plan of Salvation.

The LAW of God condemns ALL mankind of their sins, and so does the Holy Spirit convicts men of their sins.

The LAW of God was to show mankind what sin, is.

The LAW of God was only a school master until Christ came.
The LAW of God can never bring Salvation or ever justify any man.... only Jesus Christ can.
29 posted on 04/06/2013 11:32:38 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: bramps

Sometimes it takes both positive and negative reinforcement.


30 posted on 04/06/2013 11:33:07 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: TheZMan
Sort of like the doctrine of the trinity....
The most easy way to understand it is the triple crown.
31 posted on 04/06/2013 11:34:35 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: fish hawk
People think of the judgement seat of Christ as Judgement.
Yes, for those who rejected Christ and God's plan of salvation only in Jesus Christ.

Most people when they think of the word: Judgement, as WOE IS ME ! I AM IN DEEP TROUBLE !

However ? suppose you go to court if you were trying to sue someone who wrongfully done something to you ?

For example ? someone who hit your car and you were injured or your family was injured, and repair the damage to your car ?

Would you not want the judge to rule, or shall I say ? make a " JUDGEMENT " in your favor ?

The word judgement can also mean... to make a legal, right, decission.

Those who are in Christ will stand before the judgement seat of Christ for a inspection.

How about those lambs that were taken to the high priest on the day of atonement to be slautered ?

The high priest does not look at the sins of the person, for the high priest already knows the person has already sinned.

No, the high priest looks at the lamb that was presented to see if there are any spots or blemmishs on the lamb.
Jesus Christ is our spotless lamb who was shed, his blood shed for our sins.

God will make a inspection to see if he can see " THE BLOOD OF CHRIST ".... nothing else will do.

Not even your so called " Good religious deeds " or keeping the law... for no man can be made just or righteious by the law.
32 posted on 04/06/2013 11:44:33 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: caww
" There are many things in the Bible we may not like....but it does not make them less true for it. "

Make not like, or understand.

The bible tells us that the secret things belong to God, and what God has revealed to us he wants us to understand.
33 posted on 04/06/2013 11:48:11 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: fish hawk

re: “God’s question to you will not mention sin at all (they don’t exist anymore) but will be: what did you do with what my son did for you on that cross. Any one who does not understand this, does not know Bible doctrine.”

Many Christians get confused on this idea. The idea is that the only sin people will go to hell for is the sin of rejecting Christ.

Yes and no. We are already dead in our sins for the sin in our lives that we’ve committed against God prior to accepting or rejecting Christ. This is a deep subject, but carefully read Romans 5. Basically the teaching is:

1) Sin and death entered the world through Adam and his
sin.

2) All of us sin and break God’s moral law, we are
therefore all sinners, helpless to remove the guilt of
our sin ourselves - we are already in a state of
condemnation before hearing anything about Christ.

3) If God had never sent Christ to take the punishment
for our sins, we would still justly face that
condemnation without hope.

4) God was/is under no moral obligation to do what He did
for us in Christ Jesus because we have all broken His
law.

5) On the other hand, if we reject the salvation God
offers us, the salvation He provided for us in Christ
Jesus - then we have no hope of salvation because that
was it - there is no other lifeboat.

So, yes, rejection of Christ seals our condemnation, but we stood condemned already because of our previous sins against God. But, it is also not exactly true to say that the ONE thing that sends us to hell is the sin of rejecting what God’s Son did for us on the cross. If God had never sent His Son, we would still be condemned to hell by our sins against God’s moral law.


34 posted on 04/06/2013 11:50:22 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: caww
The Apostle Paul had no one to preach the Gosple to him, on the contrary, he persecuted Christ and the Church, until one day on the road to Damascus..... and the rest is history.

Ohh yeah ? those who say that Paul was a false teacher, and those " PAULINES " ... guess what ?

The Apostle Paul was a friend, brother, and contempory to both Luke and Mark.
Perhaps ? The Apostle Paul had a had in helping both Luke and Mark write their gosples, just a thought to ponder on.

Paul even mentions both Luke and Mark in one of his letters to the churches.
35 posted on 04/06/2013 11:53:22 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: ReformationFan

In the South before World War II, especially black preachers made their reputations on their elaborate and frightening descriptions of Hell. It was said that a truly gifted preacher could make a congregation “smell brimstone, and feel the fire licking the floorboards beneath their feet.”

And because whether he wanted to or not, he was party to the church gossips, so had a pretty good idea of who was sinning, how they were sinning, and who knew about it. This gave him an opportunity to, without naming names, fix his gaze on particular sinners to let them know that he knew, and was speaking directly to them in his sermon, and that they had not evaded what was coming to them.

This went a long way to at least temporarily set many on a more straight and narrow path, and even somewhat defuse near homicidal anger at say, a straying or intemperate spouse, if he or she displayed some degree of contrition.

However, after the war, Hell fell out of fashion, with the general desire by the clergy to embrace the more joyous and redemptive aspects of faith. But as an experiment, this change has caused mixed reviews, at best.


36 posted on 04/06/2013 11:56:43 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: American Constitutionalist

As is written...we grow in the grace and “knowledge” of God....it does not come all at once. His Word is deep enough to dive in and shallow enough for a child to wade in....and all in between.


37 posted on 04/06/2013 11:57:20 AM PDT by caww
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To: American Constitutionalist

that is exactly what the Passover was all about. the lambs blood over the door posts was the foreseeing of Christ blood shed for us. The death angel “passed over” when he saw the blood just as God passes over our sins when he sees the blood of his son. (for believers only though)


38 posted on 04/06/2013 12:07:53 PM PDT by fish hawk (no tyrant can remain in power without the consent and cooperation of his victims.)
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To: RegulatorCountry
I do not deny that God gave us " Free will " but ? look where the Free will got us.
I do believe that man still has " Free will "
But in the book of Ephesians chapter 2 explains what happen to man's so called " FREE WILL " .

Man's Free Will has become corrupted, depraved, tarnished.
****

Ephesians 2 (King James Version)

Chapter 2

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
( made alive again, i.e. born again, no one can make themselves alive again unto God.... God did it.
A dead man can not make himself alive.)

2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
( human nature, human self will, i.e. FREE WILL )

3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
It was all God, no human intervention.... it's not " FREE WILL " of the human of any sort )
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
( after the fall of Adam and Eve, all mankind are dead spiritually in the eyes of God, but, GOD, GOD, and GOD alone has quickened us, made us alive by his holy spirit, can not be by " FREE WILL "

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
( for by grace that you are saved through faith and not of yourselves, not by your own efforts, or " FREE WILL " of man... it was all by God's power, and choice )

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
( not of any efforts of man, or religious works of keeping the law, or good deeds, least anyone should be proud and boast before GOD )


Before the fall the free will of man was untarnish, untainted.

after the fall ?

Do I need to say more ?

The will of man is at the heart of the stuggle between God and man.

The will, or free will of man comes from the heart, and the bible says that the heart is despartly wicked above all things.

I also believe in God's sovereignty.
39 posted on 04/06/2013 12:08:23 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: ReformationFan

Then what was Jeesus being punished for when he was in hell? What was David being punished for in hell?


40 posted on 04/06/2013 12:09:57 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: American Constitutionalist
Typo corrections,

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
41 posted on 04/06/2013 12:13:51 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist

Typo correction : Before someone says “ yeah, but it warns those who are walking in the flesh “ ....


42 posted on 04/06/2013 12:14:46 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist
Certain people are simply damned no matter what they do. You know that. St. Augustine says that, John Calvin says that, the bible says that. Very few-according to Jesus-are going to heaven. You had better worry about your odds of getting there as the probability of going to heaven is very low.(The meaning of Christs own words).How can you be sure your belief is sufficient as not everyone saying Lord! Lord! is going to enter heaven.

When read closely Christianity is not a happy religion. It worships and advocates pain, agony, suffering, cuts, bruises, beatings. burnings, misery, disease, hunger,cruel and vicious deaths with eternal suffering thereafter.

43 posted on 04/06/2013 12:20:49 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: rusty schucklefurd
The problem is with some people is that they are not aware, or refuse to see their true spiritual condition before God because they have been blinded the the god of this world and age because of religion, i.e. their good deeds will win God over and he will let them into heaven, or their efforts of keeping the law will win God over to let them into heaven.

They think ? by them keeping the law that they are A OK with God and are safe, and that could not be any father than from the truth... why do you think it's called the truth of the Gosple ? because the bible and the law tells us that we are ALL ( ALL HAVE SINNED AND HAVE COME SHORT TO THE GLORY OF GOD ) have sinned, all are sinners before God, including those who are trying to keep the law...

There is only one way to GOD, one way of Salvation...

There is no other name under heaven or earth that man can be saved...... that name and person is Jesus Christ and his blood atonement..... nothing else will do.
44 posted on 04/06/2013 12:23:47 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: plain talk

My guess is that hell will be like Detroit: what you have when all the nice folks are gone.


45 posted on 04/06/2013 12:25:39 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers
My guess is that hell will be like Detroit

Without the Red Wings (but with the Lions)

46 posted on 04/06/2013 12:30:33 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: BenLurkin

As a Catholic I have researched this on occasion. This is an entry on another forum that I found to be quite useful:

Depends.
Catholics believe suicide when committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent is a complete separation from God (a mortal sin) and send a person to hell.
There are 3 conditions for a mortal sin: grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent.
While the suicide (or any kind of murder) is always a serious issue, people who commit suicide do not always have full knowledge of what they are doing. Definitely, drugs can affect thinking, like other things, such as diseases, intense pain or anguish.
Therefore, suicide is not automatically treated as a mortal sin.
We are commanded by Christ not to judge others by what they leave final decision to God who alone knows the heart of every person.
The Code of Canon Law does not list suicide as a reason for denying a person a Catholic funeral and burial in a Catholic cemetery. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__…http://www.holycrosscemeteries.com/faq/ # … Http://home.att.net/ ~ faithleap / suicide.h …
For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Mortal sin, paragraphs 1857-1859: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3s
Suicide paragraphs 2282-2283: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3s


47 posted on 04/06/2013 12:38:57 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: rusty schucklefurd
To make it more easy to understand...

Simply put,

Before Christ came, it was , yes, ALL of our sins before a holy God...

Now ? It's both the rejection of God's plan of Salvation in Christ and ALL of our sins before a holy God.

Remember ?

God's condemnation is still in effect, God's law still condenms people of their sins, until they come to him in Christ...
Once a person is saved, i.e. born again, brought back from being spiritually dead ?
God says that he will remember our sins no more.
Christ died, ONCE and FOR ALL, meaning, he died once and for all time.. no more need to go back and do it again.
Christ died for each and very sinner, once and for all time, all of their sins, past, present, and future sins.
For God transends time, for he is eternal.
48 posted on 04/06/2013 12:40:48 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
" In the South before World War II, especially black preachers made their reputations on their elaborate and frightening descriptions of Hell. It was said that a truly gifted preacher could make a congregation “smell brimstone, and feel the fire licking the floorboards beneath their feet.”

The hellfire and brimestone is more a message to the lost than the already saved.
However ? the GOOD NEWS of the gosple of Christ should be also a part of that message, people need to know why they need Christ.
Should not preach a message of hopelessness and not give them any hope.
49 posted on 04/06/2013 12:46:40 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: fish hawk

What about unrepentant sinners like that abortionist who was murdered, who turned out to be a deacon in some church, yet was personally responsible for the murders of thousands of babies over many years’ practice as an abortionist?

Do you think God greeted him with open arms, saying “Well done, though good and faithful servant!”?


50 posted on 04/06/2013 12:48:13 PM PDT by Sir_Ed
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