Posted on 06/09/2015 8:54:48 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
How did life on Earth begin? It's been one of modern biology's greatest mysteries: How did the chemical soup that existed on the early Earth lead to the complex molecules needed to create living, breathing organisms? Now, researchers say they've found the missing link.
Between 4.6 billion and 4.0 billion years ago, there was probably no life on Earth. The planet's surface was at first molten and even as it cooled, it was getting pulverized by asteroids and comets. All that existed were simple chemicals. But about 3.8 billion years ago, the bombardment stopped, and life arose. Most scientists think the "last universal common ancestor" the creature from which everything on the planet descends appeared about 3.6 billion years ago.
But exactly how that creature arose has long puzzled scientists. For instance, how did the chemistry of simple carbon-based molecules lead to the information storage of ribonucleic acid, or RNA? The RNA molecule must store information to code for proteins. (Proteins in biology do more than build muscle they also regulate a host of processes in the body.)
The new research which involves two studies, one led by Charles Carter and one led by Richard Wolfenden, both of the University of North Carolina suggests a way for RNA to control the production of proteins by working with simple amino acids that does not require the more complex enzymes that exist today.
This link would bridge this gap in knowledge between the primordial chemical soup and the complex molecules needed to build life.
(Excerpt) Read more at nbcnews.com ...
This is an example of the unfortunate choice of words I was trying to illustrate. The situation you are describing is “order” in a geometric sense, but not a thermodynamic sense. I think heat provides a better example.
A heat source and a heat sink in a box (closed system) is ordered with “hot stuff” in one place and “cold stuff” in another place. The difference allows us to extract energy but eventually the system flattens and everything reaches the same temperature. When everything is the same, isn’t that order? Of course it isn’t in the thermodynamic sense.
If I now introduce energy from an external heat source, or an imbalance from and external heat sink, I can possibly re-order the interior of the box but in total, my slightly larger universe is still marching toward thermal equilibrium. In your example, the settled rocks have no further energy to offer without application of external energy.
Again, I’m simply trying to make the point of how poorly words have been chosen to explain the second law.
Humans have managed to cause the development of hundreds...
That is called micro evolution which has never created something new out of nothing.
You make a good/essential point for indicating the lack of proof or substantiation of ‘life’. Any one with adequate science knowledge can make a scenario for beginning of ‘life’. However, this article does not explain/define life any more than the work done at the large European atom smasher.
I didn't say the laws of thermodynamics don't apply. I said they don't say what you think they say.
There is no "supposed" "macro" evolution. There is evolution. And evolution obeys the laws of thermodynamics.
You can't draw a box around some arbitrary part of a system and claim you're "applying" the laws of thermodynamics. When you think, you are organizing information, which corresponds to a decrease in entropy. That doesn't mean your brain can violate the laws of thermodynamics. The result of the thinking process is that heat is given off to the universe, and that change in entropy is positive, and larger than the entropy decrease within your brain.
Here is a very simple example of drawing an arbitrary box around part of the system where the laws of thermodynamics apply, and claiming that the Second Law is violated. Put two very large objects at different temperatures in contact with each other. Heat Q will flow from the hot body to the cold one. The entropy change for the hot body is ≈-Q/Thot. The entropy change for the cold body is ≈+Q/Tcold. If you consider only the hot body, its entropy has decreased. GASP! By your logic, the hot body has violated the Second Law. No such thing. The total entropy change is for the whole universe, and it's Q(Thot-Tcold)/ThotTcold. That is manifestly positive.
The Earth is not an isolated system. Energy is coming in from the sun every moment, and energy is leaving into space. You can't just draw a box around the Earth and claim that because there are some isolated parts of it -- like your own brain -- where entropy is decreased that they're "special" and "violate" the Second Law. They don't. You need to get better arguments. The one you're using was shot down over a hundred years ago. If you're going to make a scientific argument, you could at least be up to date. Until you are, stop making yourself look stupid.
Let me know when a seismic event is able to produce a wall of rocks with a gate in the middle...
I believe the discussion was originally, order out of chaos. I gave two solid example
Sorry for my late weigh-in. But my vanity motivated two cents from a while back: God’s Sudoku http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2964965/posts
The theory of evolution does not posit that life starts from nothing. It is a proven mechanism that explains the origin of new species in a world that already contains living organisms.
This article is exploring an aspect of a theory of molecular evolution, which attempts to fathom how the genetic molecules and early proteins may have arisen. It is entirely separate from Darwin’s theory and is far from proven, but even molecular evolution is not something from nothing.
Wait a billion years, and if by some miracle your garage is still around, I guarantee that it it is going to be substantially improved by more evolved beings who -- guess what -- will make their improvements by increasing the entropy of the universe.
I can't wait to see all the new tools and cars that evolve in my garage due to the increases in order after we add some energy and time.
Contrary to your claims, neither ghosts nor any other supernatural beings put the tools and cars in your garage that are already there. They were put there by an incredible amount of time, energy, and the laws of optimization created by a God who doesn't work on the schedule written down in an old book of Jewish legends.
If you're interested in a short history of the universe, there are plenty of excellent books on cosmology. I suggest you actually read one.
Physicists and chemists have been supplying examples where local pockets of organization give rise to locally ordered systems for well over a century. I gave you one example: your own brain. Instead of paying attention to what we've been telling you, you pretend you have this "blindingly brilliant" argument about Second Law violations within your own little echo chamber of Young Earth Creationists who don't understand basic science.
I'm trying to do you a favor here: every time you trot this clever little argument out to prance around the field, people who actually understand physics are laughing at you. If you want to continue to be the butt of other people's jokes that's fine: just keep pretending that there aren't literally an infinite number of examples where the Second Law is locally -- but never universally -- violated. I'll be happy to keep on laughing.
There is actually not a single statement in your entire post that corresponds to any theory, past or present. It's simply a collection of nonsense.
In all the years I've been listening to Creationist bilge, I've never heard of anything as stupid as "chemical evolution." Not only is the manner in which this happened thoroughly understood, even the relative abundances of the most basic of the elements are completely predicted by statistical thermodynamics to within a few hundredths of a percent from something that happened fourteen billion years ago.
There are many books on basic cosmology that explain the formation of elements both in consequence of the Big Bang, and subsequent formation of later elements in the hearts of stars. Again, stop believing the universe is a haunted house, and avail yourself of the materials available.
Hey Fred. On my way to work I thought that if this is thoroughly understood then could you suggest a specific book. I figure I could become a billionaire by coming out with fusion power. That should be a snap.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.