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Researchers May Have Solved 'Missing Link' Mystery in Origin of Life
NBC News ^ | 06/09/2015 | by JESSE EMSPAK, LIVE SCIENCE CONTRIBUTOR

Posted on 06/09/2015 8:54:48 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: RinaseaofDs

I don’t think they “hate hearing this”, it’s just nonsense. Entropy only applies to closed systems. So, you can talk about the entropy of the universe as a whole, since that is a closed system. Or you can talk about the entropy of some theoretical system that has no inputs, and that is fine too.

Talking about the entropy of anything else, though, is foolishness, since everything else in the universe is an open system. It doesn’t matter whether we are talking molecules, living organisms, planets, solar systems, or galaxies, none of them actually exist “in a vacuum”, so to speak.

Since they are open systems, the evidence you cite is simply a local decrease in the entropy of the larger, closed system that is our universe. The entropy of the whole universe is still increasing, so there is no violation of the law.


81 posted on 06/11/2015 12:02:05 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: FredZarguna
I see you responded with no facts and no references, but a lot of hot air. Instead you show me an atomic explosion. I might point out that this was done using an intelligent design. It increased chaos and is a destructive, not creative force. While you know this, you do not apply it to your religious theory.

Speaking of pre-dating. You might know the Bible predicted that the Jews would be scattered throughout the world, and in the later days, come back to the land and the nation would be re-born. It also says Israel will not be wiped out, and that the entire world will focus on Jerusalem in the last days and many nations will be cut to pieces (Zechariah). This pre-dates 1948 by more than 2400 years. Even Christians pooh-poohed this in the 1800’s. Have faith there Fred. Damascus is predicted to be destroyed and taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap (Isaiah). Sacked a number of times, it has never been ‘taken away from being a city.’ Maybe in your lifetime there Fred. It could happen if your photo is applied to said city.
82 posted on 06/11/2015 2:43:45 PM PDT by jps098
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To: jps098
While you know this, you do not apply it to your religious theory.

I don't have a religious theory: I don't believe that thermonuclear weapons were created by ghosts. That's in your wheelhouse.

You asked how heavier elements come from lighter ones. There are two pictures for you. There is no requirement that heavier elements are produced from lighter ones by a "creative force" in any scientific theory that I'm aware of. You asked how "chemical evolution" happens. Now you are [or should be] enlightened.

83 posted on 06/11/2015 2:53:42 PM PDT by FredZarguna (It looks just like a Telefunken U-47 -- with leather.)
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To: FredZarguna

Evolution is a religion, because you cannot use the scientfic method to test your theories. Such as, not being able to fuse past iron.


84 posted on 06/11/2015 3:58:07 PM PDT by jps098
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To: jps098
When I make a statement: "the tools in my garage were put there by evolved intelligent beings," it is subject to verification. That makes it a statement within the boundaries of science. Not religion.

When you make a statement: "The tools in my garage were placed there by a ghost that no one has ever seen, nor will ever see until they reach a state from which they cannot return to give reliable testimony." You are making a statement outside of the boundaries of falsify-ability. That makes it religion.

That you don't know the difference between the two is unsurprising, given your general level of ignorance. That you think your religion has equal evidentiary value or veracity to facts that can be verified by any intelligent person is shocking and disappointing. But again, it is not surprising.

Also not surprising is the fact that you know nothing about physics. Saying that the binding energy curve favors fusion below iron, and fission above it, and that therefore it is impossible to fuse elements heavier than iron is as incredibly stupid as -- and 100% analgous to -- saying: "Steam has more energy than liquid water. Therefore, water can never be a gas."

Nope, not even close.

Fusing elements with Z > 26 requires the input of energy. That doesn't mean it can't happen. It's been happening in stars every single second for about the last 13.8 billion years give or take.

Please learn some science. You're embarrassing yourself and every Young Earth Creationist who shares your cause.

85 posted on 06/11/2015 4:26:09 PM PDT by FredZarguna (It looks just like a Telefunken U-47 -- with leather.)
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To: FredZarguna

Hardly.


86 posted on 06/11/2015 4:28:20 PM PDT by jps098
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To: jps098
You know "hardly" any science?

Sorry. I can't agree.

It's just this kind of wildly hyperbolic overestimation students have of their own abilities that makes us a nation of scientific and mathematical illiterates.

87 posted on 06/11/2015 4:32:41 PM PDT by FredZarguna (It looks just like a Telefunken U-47 -- with leather.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s fine to talk about what makes particles of sand stick together, but who wrote in the sand?


88 posted on 06/11/2015 4:41:26 PM PDT by Rocky (The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it. George Orwell)
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To: SeekAndFind

[1] In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. [2] And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters. [3] And God said: Be light made. And light was made. [4] And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness. [5] And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.

[6] And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day. [9] God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done. [10] And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

[11] And he said: Let the earth bring forth the green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done. [12] And the earth brought forth the green herb, and such as yieldeth seed according to its kind, and the tree that beareth fruit, having seed each one according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. [13] And the evening and the morning were the third day. [14] And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: [15] To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done.

[16] And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night: and the stars. [17] And he set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth. [18] And to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good. [19] And the evening and morning were the fourth day. [20] God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.

[21] And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. [22] And he blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the waters of the sea: and let the birds be multiplied upon the earth. [23] And the evening and morning were the fifth day. [24] And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done. [25] And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.

[26] And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. [27] And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. [28] And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth. [29] And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: [30] And to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon. And it was so done.


89 posted on 06/11/2015 4:44:48 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: FredZarguna

You said it. You are one of the scientific and mathematical illiterates.


90 posted on 06/11/2015 5:42:35 PM PDT by jps098
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To: Go_Raiders

“Gravity causes matter to clump,.......”
“Gravity causes matter to clump.....”
“Gravity causes matter to clump.....”
“Gravity causes matter to clump.....”

I don’t know who re-opened this thread, but when it first appeared I couldn’t get past, “Gravity causes matter to clump.....”
It reminds me of, “what came first, the chicken or the egg?” I mean, without clumps, there is no matter and without matter there are no clumps, and without gravity there are no clumps, and without matter there is no gravity...............
So, what is this “causes” you refer to, and are you saying that Gravity is God?


91 posted on 06/11/2015 5:43:35 PM PDT by HandyDandy (Don't make-up stuff. It just wastes everybody's time.)
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To: jps098

Says the guy who thinks ghosts assemble all of the elements heavier than iron.


92 posted on 06/11/2015 7:06:32 PM PDT by FredZarguna (It looks just like a Telefunken U-47 -- with leather.)
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To: HandyDandy

Gravy has clumps too. If you would like to learn about the effect of gravity on unevenly dispersed matter, this is a good place to start reading: http://aether.lbl.gov/www/tour/elements/stellar/stellar_a.html

For the record, I don’t think God wastes his time supervising gravity, I think He has that set on auto-pilot.


93 posted on 06/15/2015 5:57:04 PM PDT by Go_Raiders (Freedom doesn't give you the right to take from others, no matter how innocent your program sounds.)
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To: Go_Raiders
I have run across a lump or two in gravy, but if I found a clump I wouldn't eat it. I read your link. It starts off with: "Once the universe was created by the Big Bang, the only abundant elements present were hydrogen (H) and helium (He). These elements were not evenly distributed throughout space, and under the influence of gravity they began to "clump" to form more concentrated volumes.". Then later: "This is because the main force that produces conditions suitable for fusion to happen is gravity, and the mass of the star determines the force of gravity."

It pretty much reiterates what you said. But leads to more questions from me (a layman). For example, the second quote above: it seems to be ysaying that the gravity created by the mass was created by gravity. (And, by-the-way, why, after the Big Bang was matter unevenly dispersed?

Getting back to the topic, I suppose the "missing link" they are searching for could be said to be the manner in which "gravity causing matter to clump" eventually led to organic life (and, apparently, only on planet Earth).

94 posted on 06/15/2015 7:13:05 PM PDT by HandyDandy (Don't make-up stuff. It just wastes everybody's time.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The planet is simply teeming with precellular life and macromolecules assembling into coding and catalytic proteins. Or not.


95 posted on 06/15/2015 7:38:26 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: SeekAndFind

Hecky durn. That is some kinda deal, ain’t it?


96 posted on 06/15/2015 7:55:06 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: HandyDandy

Gravity and mass and every other aspect of the Universe developed during and immediately after the Big Bang. The word “created” is as good as any. Mathematicians and physicists have spent entire careers trying to sort out the dynamics of that event, and there are still more questions than ever about how it all worked.

But to answer your question about why the uneven distribution - It’s because it is impossible for so much mass to be perfectly evenly distributed. The early universe had all the mass it has now packed into a really small space. Practically infinite numbers of collisions and interactions occurring simultaneously will always cause some areas to have more particles and some to have less, and that is all it takes for the process to start.

As for the “missing link” you are on the right track. The Big Bang events and the transition from chemical reactions to life forming are two areas that today’s science and technology have not yet solved. I believe it may be possible in the near future to use supercomputers to model the chemical interactions and chemistry necessary to form the first living things.

There are already simulations and actual chemistry experiments that have resulted in production of cellular membranes, amino acids and nucleic acids.


97 posted on 06/16/2015 12:41:13 PM PDT by Go_Raiders (Freedom doesn't give you the right to take from others, no matter how innocent your program sounds.)
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