Free Republic

“most southerners I meet can differentiate between the truth and the Lost Cause revisionism “

Sorry Mr. Washington State, Southern truth is something you have to mix with emotion to understand it to the degree we do down here in the deep South.

No chip just will not be around for a while so I just try to covered most of the southern stuff that usually comes up when talking with people outside the South. This is of course THE never ending story condensed. Sorry if y’all missed that.

Maybe others will be along shortly to refocus my assorted tales of the dark ages.

Southerns=Southerners

Bless your heart.
Working at some levels in Gov. requires anti-asylum test. I past that a few times, sorry.

“that slop y’all call barbecue sauce. I hate that stuff”
Because BBQ sauce is only for Southerns, Silly.

Your crackers are in the mail

Now that the slave thing is out of the picture...we can move on to a better look as to why...

WHY did the South fight? The South fought in SELF DEFENSE.

“That didn’t work out very well for them, did it? Maybe they shouldn’t have started the war in the first place?”

To Non Southern people like you may or may not be, it might have looked real bad, but in reality the South was totally annihilated.

In a way it did work out just not all the way just yet.
We did however learned the true nature of the North (Union) and its people. The North really doesn’t like it when the Southern people recognize their own people and their own culture without a good taste of shame thrown at us to shut us up or start a diversion.

Wouldn’t want us to get all uppity and start exposing all of the North’s war crimes, crimes which I will leave to someone else.

Or show the Blacks AND whites across the
Deep South the Corwin Amendment December 1860
or
Crittenden-Johnson Resolution July 25, 1861

Oops! to late, I think I saw them both on a large sign attached to a post a week or so ago with a ? mark near the voting area.
They must be left over from our State primary’s and I think they are still up for the run off Tuesday of next week 24.

Southerners are different and will forever remain different like night and day from the Northerners.
This will never change and we don’t want your change.

Winston Churchill said it best.
We have always found the Southerners (Irish) a bit odd. They refuse to be Yankees (English).
Winston Churchill
I think says it all.

Included is another wonderful item people just love to jump right over and leave behind.
Nearly 20-30 YEARS of bitter strife happened between the North and South, with the last 8 years before the war being the worst. The North WAS totally out of control.

again: WHY did the South fight? The South fought in SELF DEFENSE.
“That didn’t work out very well for them, did it? Maybe they shouldn’t have started the war in the first place?”

The start went well. It was the ending we didn’t like.

We did want out of the Union.
We hated the Union and how the North had turned and started acting just like the British / English of old. We knew where that was going.

The South wanted to fight. They were way way past wanting to fight.
People just can’t get over that Southerners didn’t care how big you THOUGHT you were. Y’all were going to have to fight and shed a lot of your own blood. Southerners were ready to give theirs by the bucket loads and did. They already knew how.

WIN or LOSE there would be no draw.
The North had to earn every square inch of Southern soil they would try to take.

Hanging the politicians would have served all of us better..

The South tried and lost but remember, it wasn’t a walk in the park for the North in case it comes up again.

The South lost the war and had to deal with that but retained the mental and physical toughness to rebuild.... alone.
Northerners can never have any idea, nor care/cared how bad it really was and THAT is a big thorn in our side. We just can’t pull it out...YET. WE may not have to.

We may have absorbed that thorn, and it helped to make us stronger.

The Constitution meant nothing to the North before the war. Back then, just like today. THE Government is running over the Constitution and the North needs to just take it. The North shouldn’t even be able to open their mouth about the way things are run in the Government today.

Now it’s the Norths turn! My, how the worm has turned.
This is just how we saw the North in 1861 and y’all never open y’all’s mouth except to tell the South to shut-up.

Our forefathers were crying out from the graves to stop this tyranny in 1861. Don’t y’all remember what we did for you in the Revolutionary War?? You know WHAT to do. They won’t listen so FIGHT.

They still call out to you even today if you listen in 2014.
If you can’t hear them, then, they were never your people and you do as those did before you....nothing.

Southerners, as they could do no other way, went to war, regardless of the ending. Sometimes that just doesn’t matter. It’s the spirit that rises up that counts in the end for a culture honor society .
If you understand this, then you can start to understand the Southern people.

If you don’t want to understand your neighbors then those people can start up their diversion parrot talk again. Your crackers are in the mail.

If you are a Southerner, as they say born and bred, and don’t get it, I just don’t know what to tell you except asked you Momma

Part 2 from Washington 1861: Crittenden-Johnson Resolution
what Resolution was that?

The Crittenden-Johnson Resolution dated July 25, 1861 the U.S. Congress

The U.S. Congress held the same purpose as Lincoln for the war. In the Crittenden-Johnson Resolution dated July 25, 1861 the U.S. Congress stated clearly and unambiguously that the purpose of the war was to “preserve the union” and “not to interfere with the domestic institutions of the states.”

WHY did the South fight? The South fought in SELF DEFENSE.

“because you are here.”

The best yet...So simple.

‘Any hopes for peace were dashed when Lincoln called for 75,000 troops on April 15, 1861 for an invasion of the South.”

The South wasn’t really looking for peace. I think the South wanted war and did everything they could to get it regardless of the outcome.

Looking for peace started about 1852 Declaration of the Immediate Causes, and ended 8 years later on Dec. 24, 1860 enough is enough they said. The rest is history.

The Revolutionary War was not so long back for these people and their sons.

Southerners only talk so much and the size and number of the enemy don’t really matter most of the time. They could go just so long without a fight. Remember S.C. upstate (Kings Mt.) and North Ga. is the heart of the Scot-Irish-German.

Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

(the reasons) You can not change or claim anything outside of these reasons listed in this Declaration, proof on the paper as to why, a contract that was signed and printed out.
That’s why it’s called a Declaration! Permanent! Can’t back up or out now.

(IT READS)
The people of the State of South Carolina, in > Convention assembled <, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other (States, WHICH under the Constitution of the United slaveholder states of America where it is still legal), she forbore at that time to exercise this right.
Since that time, ...these encroachments have continued to increase, (gone unanswered) and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

WHY? ((in Convention assembled <, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared))
1. frequent violations (like non stop) of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government
2. Federal Government encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States
3. these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue

These items are at issue and debatable...NOT!!!

Were there frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government? Answer Yes or No
Were there Federal Government encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States? Answer Yes or No
Were there these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue? Answer Yes or No

DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU CHECK YES OR NO. This is what people seem to overlook...
They didn’t do this overnight and then write it down on a hotel notepad and say OK boy’s I got it, get the beer and let’s go start a new country.

AGAIN: This is Immediate Causes
Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.
1. frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government
2. Federal Government encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States
3. these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue

You have just read above WHY the South did it!
Now...In order... NEXT>>>>>

Declaration cont.
And now ...((WE HAVE DONE IT, no more discussion, that’s it, they are listed above, take it or lie about)) the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.

(we are done, out of there, we are our on country again)

You may disagree with them on what led to this act, but that’s it. Why they did it is listed and can not be changed.

You can read the rest here at yale http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp but the reason listed are clear.
Can’t change what was listed in the cause.

at the end of Doc. ...”with full power to levy war”. Yes, we lost the war but.. we did it. We backed up what we said we would do when the North attacked us as a country.
We levied war back at THE North, another country was invading us, as listed in the South Carolina Declaration.

We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to >>>>>levy war (which we did as a country), conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.

Doesn’t matter if it was lollipops or can tuna or slaves, the declared reason is still declared.
That might be the reason for all the hostility..
The North can’t change the written past. They can only attempt to rewrite it and push the North’s propaganda.

The items listed in the Declaration, were never dealt with except through the barrels of 10’s of 1000’s of Northern guns blazing away at children, women, civilian’s along with our soldiers including livestock, land, water and the food supply.

my opinion any way on short notice

“disagree that the reasons for the invasion of the south were primarily due to some noble desire to emancipate the slaves”.

Yes, slavery is use to divert, to try and shame but it doesn’t work on Southerners ever!!
Northerners just don’t get that, and probably never will! That in itself, has it’s on problems.

“Slavery started the war” has been parroted by the sheeple, trained to force people away from the North’s illegal attack on the South. It’s nothing but a deception, watch for it because it never stops.

BUT WHY do people jump straight to slaves when it is documented that it was not about slaves.

Slaves may have been a part of the South and would have gone with the South but THAT WAS LEGAL. There were GIVE OUR TAKE 3 reasons spelled out CLEARLY as to why the South left the Union and...started a new country.
It happen.

I’ll try to put it together as it would be used in a court room...

In like I would like to illegally change an existing old contract that I don’t like. My name is no where on the Doc. but I want change it because I’ll “feel” better.

I WANT TO change the way slave is used in the top part of that old contract DOC. that has ALREADY BEEN SIGNED AND AGREED TO by other people.

Lincoln said: “The power confided in me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property, and places belonging to the government, and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion—no using force against, or among the people anywhere” (emphasis added).

Collect the higher tariff rate, he said, and there will be no invasion. Fail to collect it, and there will be an invasion. Two years later, he would deport the most outspoken member of the Democratic Party opposition, Congressman Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio, after Vallandigham said this in a speech:

[T]he Confederate Congress . . . adopted our old tariff of 1857 . . .fixing their rate of duties at five, fifteen, and twenty percent lower than ours. The result was . . . trade and commerce . . . began to look to the South . . . . The city of New York, the great commercial emporium of the Union, and the North-west, the chief granary of the union, began to clamor now, loudly, for a repeal of the pernicious and ruinous tariff. Threatened thus with the loss of both political power and wealth, or the repeal of the tariff, and, at last, of both, New England—and Pennsylvania . . . demanded, now, coercion and civil war, with all its horrors, as the price of preserving either from destruction . . . . The subjugation of the South, and the closing up of her ports—first, by force, in war, and afterward, by tariff laws, in peace, was deliberately resolved upon by the East.
As McGuire and Van Cott conclude: “[T]he tariff issue may in fact have been even more important in the North-South tensions that led to the Civil War than many economists and historians currently believe.”

http://mises.org/daily/1168

On March 12, 1861, a week after Lincoln’s inauguration and a month before Fort Sumter, the New York Evening Post, another Republican Party mouthpiece, advocated a preemptive strike against the Southern free traders with a naval attack that would “abolish all ports of entry” into the Southern states.

The Newark Daily Advertiser, meanwhile, expressed its disgust that Southerners had apparently “taken to their bosoms the liberal and popular doctrine of free trade,” and that they “may be willing to go . . . toward free trade with the European powers.”

“The chief instigator of the present troubles—South Carolina—have all along for years been preparing the way for the adoption of free trade,” and must therefore be stopped “by the closing of the ports” by military force.
http://mises.org/daily/1168

Calhoun’s death on March 31, 1850, one of his greatest foes, U.S. Senator Thomas Hart Benton of Missouri, sternly rebuked an associate who suggested that he honor Calhoun with a eulogy in Congress. ‘He is not dead, sir — he is not dead,’ remarked Benton, a staunch Unionist. ‘There may be no vitality in his body, but there is in his doctrines.’ A decade later, a bloody civil war would prove Benton was right.

http://www.historynet.com/john-c-calhoun-he-started-the-civil-war.htm

It’s goes back to J C Calhoun and A Jackson.
Again S.C. boys that hated each other and stayed in a p*#%ing contest.

Care for slaves? asked the Indians how much the gov. cares for anybody.

Slaves, about half the states were free states, part were not, and the rest were not going to be slave states.
It was winding down whether you won’t to admit to it or not but I don’t really care.

Thanks for the help.
The slaves issue would had been over sooner or later anyway. Slavery was on it’s last legs in the 1840’s-50’s thank God.

I believe the war was not about slavery and never was. That thinking is over for me.
People still use it to pound on the South, but some of us, a lot of us didn’t get on the shame and blame train.

Here’s what I think it boils down to and not much more.
I could be wrong but really don’t care if I am anymore.

The Corwin Amendment was offered to the South somewhere about March 2-12 1861
Keep your slaves forever if y’all come back into the Union.
Our answer, we have had enough, let’s fight.

All those years and years of bickering and backstabbing were OVER.
Our answer was in our cannon balls tearing up Fort Sumter April 12, 1861 all deals were now null and void and we burned all the bridges.

We went for broke and we got it, but by God we tried.
We had had enough.
This is what I get out of a lifetime of stories told me from a defeated people, a culture totally burned to the ground, that the North will never know OR understand.

This was just like William Travis (Son of S.C.) had done. Firing his cannon at Santa Anna from the Alamo was his answer to.

The north then went to war to defend the union and won the slaves freedom in return.

The South went to war to stop ONE OF THE LARGEST armies out there, aka the Northern Invaders (Yankee) and we lost.

We lost just about everything.
We did however keep our pride and ability to fight. Government couldn’t take that, but sure like to use it.
(in the Armed Forces)

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

I guess I’m a little shell shocked by never hearing about CA until now.

After reading the deal offered by the gov., Corwin Amendment, I just can’t for reasons yet understood ever again think the war was ever about slavery.

This should put an end to that slavery issue just on the face value of the Corwin Amendment.
Yet here we have the United States of America offering the South slaves forever, and.....we will fix it so it will last forever...for y’all.

The reason I get all up about this is my family could still be in bondage if it had passed. We made it up to sharecroppers, then freemen, O, and I’m white.

And my GGGF and 4 of his brothers fought in the war together.
3 were shot up, 1 killed, 1 sent home to take care of their momma who was left alone on the farm when the war started.

I know exactly why they fought, we were invaded., and we still tell the stories.
It wasn’t about slavery to them at all.

Now I’m starting to get a little p o’d over this whole issue.

What Republicans called a “cordon of freedom,” secessionists denounced as an inflammatory circle of fire.

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/29/did_northern_aggression_cause_the_civil_war/

Well I guess that answered itself then.

The South would have to have kept all the slaves in the South if they had taken the bait.
Just a back door way of making sure all the slaves didn’t end up in the North to live.
I don’t know how they were treated up North at that time.

I think the North wanted to clean house of their slaves.

I also think that because of such a ridiculous amendment for permanent slavery, anything is possible.
Even a plan to grow the South to furnish more goods for Northern finished goods and exports.

You saw in an earlier post how much money the North was taking in above all others in the country.
This would in turn cause the South to increase their volume of slaves to increase goods and the North had plenty to move out.

No more slaves could come into America so the only place the South could have gotten more slaves would have been from...you guess it, the North.

It could be just that simple. I know there was talk in the North about shipping the slaves somewhere but that fell through.

Who knows what they were thinking back then.
Just a shot in the dark outside the box.