No Clapping, Dancing at Mass, Vatican to Warn

Reuters ^ | Tue, Sep 23, 2003 | Philip Pullella

[presidio9]

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.

Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.

According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.

The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.

If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.

According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."

The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.

Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.

Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.

The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."

Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.

Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.

The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.

The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.

It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.

Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.

"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.

[Poohbah]

Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands

What's really beautiful about this is that there's no requirement that the joyful noise be on key (c8

[NeoCaveman]

.No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.

[Remole]

In an article published in America Magazine in the late 80's or early 90's, Andrew Greely uttered these words, which I often quote:

"True Liturgical Reform in the Cathoic Church in the United States will only begin when the Last Guitar is smashed over the head of the Last Liturgist."

[Pyro7480]

The abuse is with those who so readily change the form of our service, the Mass. The Mass is considered the highest form of prayer within the Catholic Church. Those who "innovate" with liturgy also are likely to "innovate" with doctrine.

[Protagoras]

But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.

Ill chosen words I'd say.

[francisr]

this whole thread reeks - since Vatican II the Church has been on a downward slide - with a great assist from those who needed a 'progressive Jesus'. a "Jesus who loves me just like I am" - sorry - all of parables of the Gospel say that it just is not so - there is a price, a sacrifice to be made for the "Pearl of great price" - the Church I grew up in is gone - but the hate goes on, the destruction goes on, the need of the laity for jazz mass, clown mass, dance mass - anything but actual prayer, sacrifice and adoration - goes on . And the results are on the front page of the press and on threads like this - IMHO

[Varda]

"Ironically, Pope John Paul 's sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause. "

Yep, It was in St. Peter's when I first heard clapping at mass. Unfortunately this practice has grown in the US. Our parish priest started this bad habit and now the congregation sometimes spontaneously breaks out in clapping after hymns (especially those sung by a children's choir).

[JohnnyZ]

An end to the army of "eucharistic ministers"?

Oh, I hope so. They've already spoken out against that, but most priests and bishops basically turn a blind eye. They'd rather save 2 minutes on the Holy Eucharist while singing the Gloria repeatedly for five minutes. At my parish's sign-up day they told me they were in desperate need of eucharistic ministers, even though we have about eight every Mass!!!!

[xsmommy]

While attending MASS IN THE ROUND this past weekend, i was relieved that there were no altar girls, but the entire production was appalling. no kneeling atall. in fact they didn't BUILD kneelers into the place.

[Bohemund]

Sounds as if a lot of the Psalms are thrown out here.

Singing and music are still allowed.

[Pyro7480]

Yep. They're also afraid of women. but hey - it appears that many other Catholics are too. But then, the Vatican's long history of endorsing and hiding child molestation has only recently surfaced. Perhaps a few more expensive-lawsuit boy-molesting cases are needed to wake the Vatican from it's pro-homo/hide-the-molesting-priest attitude.

Take a hike with your agenda. Though it has been a problem, having only altar boys has nothing to do with homosexuality.

[Protagoras]

In was trying to find those verses, thank you.

[ArrogantBustard]

They prefer

They? Which "they"? Be specific. Keep in mind that problems with liturgical abuse, the preference for "altar girls", and problems with pederasty all are worst in "liberal" dioceses. (Boston under Cdl. Law was not conservative.) The current statement of preference for altar boys is coming from the opposite direction.

[Petronski]

Meanwhile, "Bishop" Trautman of the Diocese of Erie (so called) is busy admonishing Catholics for kneeling during Mass. No kidding.

[rdb3]

A "joyful noise" can also describe chanting or singing, so I don't see that as "disposing of the Psalms."

These joyful noises are spoken of as if spontaneous praise. Telling parishoners not to do so squelches spontaneous praise.

There are plenty of Christian sects that have issues with dancing, either in services or period.

It can be one or a billion, but having "issues" with dancing in praise of the LORD is scripturally unsupported.

---

2 Samuel 6:14 - And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

[Skooz]

Sounds as if a lot of the Psalms are thrown out here.

Yep. A lot of them.

Psalm 47:1 Clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.

[MudPuppy]

I'm in Arlington (VA) Diocese. There are no altar girls allowed here and it's a beautiful thing. There is never a shortage of boys - as a matter of fact usually 3 boys serve per Sunday Mass (of which there are 5 offered at my parish). The boys are well trained in their duties and wear a cassock with surplice. It's terrific.
I would revolt if they let girls serve.

[Desdemona]

girls are more punctual and reliable

I've heard this argument as well and it is true that girls are more likely to show up on their own. I actually think this is a problem more with the parents than the kids. I have three brothers and my mother was quite vigilant about them being at church on time when it was their turn as well as sending them up to sub when the assigned altar boys didn't bother to show up.

[wardaddy]

I'm not Catholic but enjoy their sense of tradition.

I attended a Pentacostal service for the first time in my life last Sunday here in Nashville at Cornerstone church.

I am unaccustomed to the quite modern music and expression and yes ...even one case of speaking in tongues which was quickly explained later to all of we visitors. I swear I heard some Ladino in the gibberish....but anyhow.

The preacher....an ex-convict from over 2 decades ago and born again preached the most socially conservative sermon I have heard since adulthood. He made me want to get up and shout a few Hallelujahs...lol.....spot on across the board.

So refreshing from all the apostate Protestant service I normally run across amongst your liberal "be nice is all that matters" crowd in middle and upper middle class environs.

I'm not sure I'd go every weekend.. ..a 2 hour service as well, but it was very inspiring. I would recommend any FReeper in middle Tennessee/SE Kenticky to try it....I-65 north at Old Hickory Blvd.

He has taken a 200 congregation and turned it into a 2500-3000 per Sunday church...incredible...some folks are hungry for the word.

just my 2 bits....more power to Catholics to cling to their traditions and purge the homosexuals!

[Poohbah]

"True Liturgical Reform in the Cathoic Church in the United States will only begin when the Last Guitar is smashed over the head of the Last Liturgist."

Does Father Greeley recall the original arrangement of the hymn, Silent Night? It was composed for guitar because the church organ was CASREP'd.