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1 posted on 10/23/2002 10:59:48 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Diago; narses; Loyalist; BlackElk; american colleen; saradippity; Polycarp; Dajjal; ...
The future is now. Those (we won't name names) who say that the diabolical plans of pervert liturgists won't come to fruition should read this story. The revolution is not ahead of us, it's in the rearview mirror. (For more about the "dialectical process" of the pervert liturgists, see these stories:)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/768883/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/768486/posts

It has already become the status quo to have female "pastoral associates" running the parishes while a few priests run around from parish to parish saying the words of consecration, not only in Rochester, but in other dioceses like Richmond.

If it's not the case yet in your diocese, this article makes it clear, "Such will be the way of the future for all churches, not just in Rochester but throughout North America." Get ready to hold hands with "Barbara."

When the article says "the number of active diocesan priests will drop by 60 percent nationally by 2025," they're not exaggerating the problem. I was at the funeral of priest last week, and the procession of diocesan priests down the aisle consisted of one white head after another. In 20 years they'll all be gone, and the 1 or 2 priests ordained each year are not going to replace them.

BlackElk thinks its bad when you hear "Hi, I'm Steve. I'm going to be your celebrant this morning," but wait until he hears, "Hi, I'm Barbra, and I'm going to be your 'pastoral associate' this morning. I'll be leading the 'communion service' because our turn to have Father here on Sunday doesn't come up for 3 more weeks."
2 posted on 10/23/2002 11:18:47 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
The Rochester diocese is by no means alone in experiencing a steadily dwindling number of priests.

I believe that when the Church gets back to having Seminaries in which young men have no fear of being molested, physically or psychologically, and in which they are taught to be GODLY priests, there will be such an outpouring of vocations as we haven't seen in many a year!

5 posted on 10/23/2002 11:42:29 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Maximilian; BlackElk; Siobhan; american colleen; sinkspur; livius; Lady In Blue; Salvation; ...
While it's too early to know precise details, the reordering of resources ordered by Bishop Matthew Clark likely will lead to hard decisions on a wider scale than Catholics have known.

Bishop Clark has been strategizing and planning this move for quite some time now. There is much controversy in the DOR, including gay masses, ordination of a female priest (she and the priest who ordained her have been excommunicated), wreckovation of several churches, the presence of Hillary Clinton speaking from the altar of a DOR church, during her senate campaign. The following article appeared in the May 23 edition of The Wanderer.

Lay Preaching To Spread In Rochester Diocese

By PAUL LIKOUDIS

  ROCHESTER, N.Y. — The abusive practice of laymen — usually nuns or ex-nuns — preaching during Mass, a nearly quarter-century-long practice in several Catholic parishes in the Diocese of Rochester, N.Y., received the imprimatur of Bishop Matthew Clark on April 24, when he issued new norms for lay preaching to take effect immediately.

  "I would want for us to enjoy as fully as we possibly can . . . the beauty of lay preaching in this diocese," he said at a May 4 meeting that brought together about 150 priests, pastoral administrators, and parish bureaucrats at St. Bernard’s School of Theology and Ministry in Rochester. "It’s a value I don’t want to lose in any way."

  True to form, Clark is taking authorized ecclesiastical norms and standing them on their head to produce the contrary effect of what was intended. The sharpest example is that canon law, and the American bishops’ complementary norms, require that any lay preacher authorized by the bishop be orthodox and live an exemplary Catholic life: There is no possibility that any orthodox Catholic could pass by Clark’s heterodox strainers, most of whom have decades-long records and reputations as dissenters from Catholic teaching.

  But Clark’s latest manifesto goes much beyond that problem.

  The implications for Catholics in the Diocese of Rochester are enormous: Ambitious lay people who may not like their priests will demand equal time in the pulpit, and if they are heterodox, will receive permission to preach; the possibility that Catholics in the pew will receive Catholic teaching lessens, driving more Catholics into Protestant sects; priests will be increasingly marginalized, discouraged, demoralized, and harassed, and the priest shortage will avalanche.

  As one Catholic observed to this reporter: "Imagine if the state suddenly authorized lay physicians or lay dentists or lay engineers, and all those who spent major portions of their lives obtaining the knowledge and expertise for their work had to sit on the sidelines while amateurs and dilettantes preached and engaged in these professional activities. What could be more demoralizing for those in the professions and discouraging for those entering the professions? This holds even more so for a priest, who not only has a period of long preparation, but also makes lifelong commitments, such as celibacy, before he can be ordained.

  "Even barbers and plumbers wouldn’t stand for that; but somehow Clark feels the priesthood is superfluous."

  Also speaking at the meeting was St. Bernard’s liturgy professor, Fr. Robert Kennedy, who exulted: "We have had for more than 25 years, a wonderful, rich experience of lay preaching in this diocese. It is a rich blessing and is part of what is playing into these norms."

  (Kennedy, Wanderer readers will recall, told a March 1996 gathering that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality [see The Wanderer, April 18, 1996]. At the 1997 meeting of the National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries, held in Rochester, Kennedy told his audience, "I am trying to figure out who I am and what makes me tick. . . . Here I am in midlife. I wonder when I will get to mature adulthood.")

  Also on hand for the event was Joan Workmaster, who heads the diocese’s Office of Worship.

  Workmaster, who frequently is at Clark’s side during the celebration of special Masses, told the group that the hardest part of the new norms for many to accept will be the prohibition of laity reading the Gospel. According to the report on the meeting published in the diocesan newspaper, The Catholic Courier, Workmaster explained that there is "no detailed text in Church law as to why this practice is reserved for a priest or deacon. She ventured that the Gospel’s relevance to the liturgy is so vital that ‘at that particular time the ordained would come in.’

  "She said many lay people who have preached in place of the homily and read the Gospel have done so with good intentions, commenting, ‘I think it came out of the recognition of the value of lay participation in the diocese. I don’t think anybody engaged in it was doing anything radical’," reported Mike Latona.

  "But she remarked that the ‘climate of the times’ — a thrust from Rome for all U.S. dioceses ‘to look more closely at what they’re doing’ — lent to the development of norms for the Rochester Diocese."

  Last November, the U.S. bishops approved complementary legislation for canon 766 of the Code of Canon Law, on "Lay Preaching," which received a recognitio from the Holy See two weeks later.

  The norm states: "Preaching the Word of God is among the principal duties of those who have received the Sacrament of Orders (cc. 762-764). The lay faithful can be called to cooperate in the exercise of the Ministry of the Word (c. 759). In accord with canon 766 the National Conference of Catholic Bishops hereby decrees that the lay faithful may be permitted to exercise this ministry in churches and oratories, with due regard for the following provisions:

  "If necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems useful in particular cases, the diocesan bishop can admit lay faithful to preach, to offer spiritual conferences or give instructions in churches, oratories or other sacred places within his diocese, when he judges it to be to the spiritual advantage of the faithful.

  "In order to assist the diocesan bishop in making an appropriate pastoral decision (Interdicasterial Instruction, Ecclesiae de Mysterio, Article 2 ss3), the following circumstances and cases are illustrative: the absence or shortage of clergy, particular language requirements, or the demonstrated expertise or experience of the lay faithful concerned.

  "The lay faithful who are to be admitted to preach in a church or oratory must be orthodox in faith, and well-qualified, both by the witness of their lives as Christians and by a preparation for preaching appropriate to the circumstances.

  "The diocesan bishop will determine the appropriate situations in accord with canon 772ss1. In providing for preaching by the lay faithful the diocesan bishop may never dispense from the norm which reserves the homily to the sacred ministers (c. 767ss1; cfr. Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, 26 May 1987, in AAS 79 [1987], 1249). Preaching by the lay faithful may not take place within the Celebration of the Eucharist at the moment reserved for the homily."

  It is anticipated the Diocese of Rochester’s new norms will not only preserve lay preaching in those places where it is a tradition, but will encourage other parishes that have not adapted the practice "to feel more comfortable doing so," Workmaster told the Courier.

  For those who fear the new norms will restrict lay preaching, Workmaster said many opportunities for lay preaching remain, such as when a priest doesn’t have time to prepare a homily, at parish missions and retreats and other non-eucharistic celebrations.

  Kennedy added that the new norms do not cover every situation where and when laity can preach, and that it will take time to define such terms as "useful" and "necessary."

  Among the canon law experts at the May 4 meeting at St. Bernard’s was Fr. John Huels, from St. Paul University in Ottawa, who offered a way around Church law restricting laity from preaching during the "moment reserved for the homily."

  "Perhaps most importantly for lay preachers," wrote Latona, "Church law does not prohibit the practice of a priest or deacon giving a brief homily during Mass — Fr. Huels uses the term ‘homilette’ — and then giving way to a lay person. Fr. Huels added that the lay preacher should immediately follow the homily, rather than speak after Communion — a slot where announcements and brief talks are often made — because worshipers aren’t as attentive by that time."

  Also quoted in Latona’s lengthy feature report for the May 9 Catholic Courier was Fr. Gary Tyman, one of 22 diocesan priests who regularly celebrated Dignity Masses in the diocese.

  Tyman said the new norms would affect him and his preacher, Rose Davis, who preaches every six weeks at Holy Rosary and Precious Blood Parishes. "...[T]o comply with the diocesan norms," Latona wrote, "he now plans to offer a reflection during the spot reserved for the homily whenever Davis preaches. Fr. Tyman added that he considers Davis’ role vital for the parish.

  " ‘She’s a very fine, a very good preacher. She does a good job of exploring the Scriptures and connecting to what’s going on in people’s lives,’ Fr. Tyman commented. He added that Davis does not read the Gospel when she preaches, although that custom did exist while he was Catholic chaplain at the University of Rochester."

  Another revelation in Latona’s report is that the diocese is forming a committee, to be in place by July 1, to clear lay people to preach.

  "The norms state," wrote Latona, "that all preachers — ordained and non-ordained — should exhibit such traits as good maturity, critical theological reflection, communication skills, and academic preparation. And all preachers are now required to attend at least one preaching-related workshop, seminar, or course per year. . . .

  "Workmaster sees these requirements as elevating an already high quality of preaching in this diocese. . . .

  "The norms . . . have been in the works for nearly three years. They were primarily developed by Fr. Robert J. Kennedy, a longtime professor of liturgy; Franciscan Sr. Chris Treichel, pastoral association at Sacred Heart in Auburn; and Workmaster. The process involved consultation with several diocesan committees."

7 posted on 10/23/2002 11:49:56 AM PDT by NYer
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To: .45MAN
PING
9 posted on 10/23/2002 11:58:44 AM PDT by dansangel
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To: Maximilian
"As part of the planning, strict guidelines have been set:
The church service called "Sunday Celebration in the Absence of a Priest," a communion service, can only be used in short-term emergencies."

Yes, indeed! Strict guidelines, like the prohibition of altargirls, the command that Latin and plainchant should continue to be used, and that there should be a wide and generous application of the Indult.

Since the liturgical terrorists have been getting away with cultural murder since V-2, I have no doubt whatsoever that the majority of Catholics in this country are actually gullible enough to believe that these "strict guidelines" are more than temporary window dressing. It's just one more step towards the ordination of priestesses.

Once the Earth Mother types have taken over the actual running of the parishes, the priests will be reduced to the status of powerless figureheads, like the Vizier/Sultan relationship in the old Ottoman Empire. Then we'll see how "short-term emergencies" is really defined.

11 posted on 10/23/2002 12:25:18 PM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Maximilian
The church service called "Sunday Celebration in the Absence of a Priest," a communion service, can only be used in short-term emergencies.

Kinda like extraordinary eucharistic ministers. How long until this becomes the norm in these diocese?

16 posted on 10/23/2002 1:13:33 PM PDT by Flying Circus
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To: Maximilian
I am happy to be able to report that the shortage of priests will soon be over.

My Bishop Robert Lynch (St. Petersburg Diocese) has publicly stated that after JP II is gone, celibacy will end and women will be ordained to the priesthood. That should solve the priest shortage. Hallelujah!!! It's heart-warming to know that I live in a modern Catholic Diocese. The Holy Spirit moves in mysterious ways if you are a miscreant, gay Bishop.

Long live JP II!!!

19 posted on 10/23/2002 1:35:21 PM PDT by Rum Tum Tugger
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To: Maximilian
This is from the city I live in.. If any of you would like me to pass something along I'd be glad to help my RC friends.

Look at the bright side. The church will save a fortune in clothing costs. The robes look good on male or female..:)

25 posted on 10/23/2002 4:16:38 PM PDT by Joshua
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To: NYer
Is this your diocese? Hubbard, right?
27 posted on 10/23/2002 5:03:11 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Maximilian
Rochester has been a terrible Diocese for Years. I was raised there. I was present at Bishop Clark's ordination. My brother is a Deacon serving two parishes in the diocese. The last time I was there in May a nun read the gospel and preached the homily while the Priest sat on his "Chasible". At dinner that day I commented about it to my Deacon and liberal brother. He said (with a smirk)"She didn't preach the Homily, only Priests and Deacons can preach a homily. She just expounded on the scriptures". A few years ago at thanksgiving his wife exploded to me at thanksgiving dinner that woman are being excluded from the Priesthood "Just because they don't have a Penis".

My great uncle, the former Vicar General of the Diocese in the late '50's must be turning over in his grave.

The bible states "Woe to those Spiritual leaders who lead their people astray". Pray for the conversion of Bishop Clark. He has done terrible damage.

94 posted on 10/25/2002 5:20:03 AM PDT by daffyduct
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