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Female Pastoral Ministers Replace Catholic Priests
Rochester Democrat & Chronicle ^ | October 22, 2002 | Doug Mandelaro

Posted on 10/23/2002 10:59:47 AM PDT by Maximilian

Edited on 05/07/2004 8:07:34 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

While it's too early to know precise details, the reordering of resources ordered by Bishop Matthew Clark likely will lead to hard decisions on a wider scale than Catholics have known. The planning comes as the diocese struggles to deal with shifting demographics and a steadily falling number of priests.


(Excerpt) Read more at democratandchronicle.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; liberals; mass; priests
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To: BlackElk
Further good news: Walter Sullivan, the pseudocatholic goofball Bishop of Richmond is to retire this year. Let us pray that he is replaced with an actual Catholic.
81 posted on 10/24/2002 9:07:17 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: ArrogantBustard
Maybe we should figure out how to Freep the Curial Congregation for Bishops? Think of it: A Catholic as a bishop in Richmond after all these years!!!!
82 posted on 10/24/2002 9:15:12 AM PDT by BlackElk
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To: ArrogantBustard
***the pseudocatholic goofball Bishop of Richmond***

LOL.

Maybe it ought to be: the pseudocatholic Goofball Bishop of Richmond. There are Arch Bishops and then there are also Goofball Bishops. Great title!
83 posted on 10/24/2002 9:19:17 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: ELS
Thanks ELS.

4 Masses on Sundays in my parish... 2 priests (one of the two is retired in residence) and one visiting priest. So the pastor says 2 Masses on Sunday the retired one says one and the visiting says the other, one of them says the Mass Saturday at 5 and one or the other says Mass each day at the 9AM. Tons of EEM's helping out of course (95% of them are women) although the priests are next door at the rectory. The whole parish goes to communion.

No chance of burn-out when you think of them compared with Padre Pio. Empty "recon" room each Saturday from 3:30 to 4:00. Didn't Padre Pio hear confession for hours each day?

84 posted on 10/24/2002 9:42:07 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen; ninenot; Tantumergo; ELS
The Canon Law doesn't give the specific reasons, but a priest's "routine" leading to the lack of due piety, and even possible loss of faith, is what the Church cares about, IMHO.

THE CODE OF CANON LAW

Mirror site

Can. 905 §1 Apart from those cases in which the law allows him to celebrate or concelebrate the Eucharist a number of times on the same day [e.g. 3 Masses on Christmas - hey], a priest may not celebrate more than once a day.

§2 If there is a scarcity of priests, the local Ordinary may for a good reason allow priests to celebrate twice in one day or even, if pastoral need requires it, three times on Sundays or holydays of obligation.

Also, related are Cans. 904 and 906.
85 posted on 10/24/2002 9:54:00 AM PDT by heyheyhey
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To: american colleen
Didn't Padre Pio hear confession for hours each day?

Yes, I think it was in the neighborhood of 12-16 hours a day!

86 posted on 10/24/2002 10:06:37 AM PDT by ELS
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To: heyheyhey
Thanks.
87 posted on 10/24/2002 10:07:29 AM PDT by ELS
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To: american colleen
Sorry, no links. You have to know the priests or get "the rules" secondhand through bulletin announcements, etc.

Besides, we NOW have a CATHOLIC Bishop--so the rules might have already changed...
88 posted on 10/24/2002 3:54:12 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: Tantumergo; american colleen
A priest is only allowed to say 2 Masses of obligation on a Sunday, but may ask his bishop for a dispensation to say three.

Thanks!! Weakland basically turned down all requests for a third Mass. Not that long ago, if a priest didn't say three Sunday Masses, the churches would explode due to overcrowding.

89 posted on 10/24/2002 3:57:07 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: sinkspur
Clark never sanctioned female priests in a Catholic Church.

Maybe not officially... What do you think Clark's personal opinion on priestess is? I reckon it's at odds with the Vatican.
90 posted on 10/24/2002 7:11:52 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: ELS
The multiplying of orthodox Catholics with the simultaneous dimunition of heterodox "Catholics" will solve the (contrived) priest shortage.

Exactly. Why do you think they're so keen on striking now? They realize that their window is rapidly closing. Time is most definitely on OUR side. We must all pray that the next Pope is as strong on these issues as JPII. Another 20 years, and the pernicious baby-boom generation will be rocking-chair bound and you can't change the Church from there.

And we're brewing up a nice big family here at our house too......
91 posted on 10/24/2002 7:16:44 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: BlackElk
Doesn't Camden have one who has recently banned VOTF?

That would be our good Bishop DiMarzio. I wrote him a letter recently asking him to outline where he stands on the Vatican's position banning the ordination of homosexuals. The letter he wrote back could not have been better. He's also given strong support to our Tridentine Rite parish and was heard to say, "The Blessed Mother really wants this place."

Our conspiracy proceedeth.

Yep. And from what I've seen, we've got youth on our side. All they have are a bunch of aging hippy-dippy types.
92 posted on 10/24/2002 7:31:06 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: ELS
"What did the Code say to do when the parish church became too small to accomodate all of the parish community at one time?"

This is why the Code permits bishops to allow priests to say up to 3 Masses on the same day.

Unfortunately, the more liberal bishops are now using the Code to reduce the number of Masses and replace them with the likes of "Liturgies of the Word and Holy Communion".

They see this as their Trojan horse for "de-clericalising" the Church. They seem oblivious to the fact that they are encouraging lay people to become pseudo-clerics.
93 posted on 10/25/2002 3:30:14 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Maximilian
Rochester has been a terrible Diocese for Years. I was raised there. I was present at Bishop Clark's ordination. My brother is a Deacon serving two parishes in the diocese. The last time I was there in May a nun read the gospel and preached the homily while the Priest sat on his "Chasible". At dinner that day I commented about it to my Deacon and liberal brother. He said (with a smirk)"She didn't preach the Homily, only Priests and Deacons can preach a homily. She just expounded on the scriptures". A few years ago at thanksgiving his wife exploded to me at thanksgiving dinner that woman are being excluded from the Priesthood "Just because they don't have a Penis".

My great uncle, the former Vicar General of the Diocese in the late '50's must be turning over in his grave.

The bible states "Woe to those Spiritual leaders who lead their people astray". Pray for the conversion of Bishop Clark. He has done terrible damage.

94 posted on 10/25/2002 5:20:03 AM PDT by daffyduct
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To: daffyduct
My great uncle, the former Vicar General of the Diocese in the late '50's

Did he work with Fulton Sheen?

95 posted on 10/25/2002 6:55:42 AM PDT by ELS
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To: ELS
Did he work with Fulton Sheen?

Actually, Fulton Sheen was later in the sixties after Vatican II. And it appears that Sheen was responsible for much of the trouble in Rochester today. Here is a review of the recent Sheen biography:

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen was beyond doubt the most celebrated Catholic cleric of his time, and remains a hero to many today. The end of his life trailed off toward the inglorious, however. After clashing with Cardinal Spellman of New York, he was appointed Archbishop of Rochester, New York, which some (perhaps Sheen as well) viewed as a form of exile. The Second Vatican Council had recently concluded, and Sheen declared his ambition to make Rochester a model of Vatican II reforms.

James Hitchcock, St. Louis University historian, reviews Thomas C. Reeve’s America’s Bishop: The Life and Times of Fulton J. Sheen, and offers this reflection: “During the council he had supported most changes, at one point even exulting that the gathering ‘undid’ four hundred years of history, although prior to that time he had given no public, and few private, intimations that he thought the Church needed change. Now he seemed often to lose his critical faculties in a rush of euphoria (including President John F. Kennedy in an account of ‘modern saints,’ for example).

His brief career in Rochester was a sad story, full of obscure conflicts the full nature of which are not known, partly because the Sheen archives there are in disarray. What seems to have happened is that he attempted to establish himself as a leader of change, at one point even getting maneuvered by a television interviewer into saying that contraception might be a permissible practice, then found that he had unleashed forces that he could not control. Attacked from both left and right, he was practically forced to retire, and his personally chosen successor went on to make Rochester perhaps the most liberal diocese in the United States, an ironic legacy from a man who for decades epitomized Catholic orthodoxy for millions of people.


96 posted on 10/25/2002 7:35:37 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
Interesting. Where is the review from? I attended a lecture last night by Thomas Reeves about Fulton Sheen. I realized after I replied to daffyduct that Sheen was in Rochester much later than the 50's.

Reeves made the point that his biography is not a hagiography of Sheen, but includes his faults as well. He said that Sheen's strengths did not include diocese administration. Sheen was a brilliant mind that was able to effectively communicate the beauty and wisdom of the Catholic Faith to the masses in an appealing way.

After clashing with Cardinal Spellman of New York, he was appointed Archbishop of Rochester, New York, which some (perhaps Sheen as well) viewed as a form of exile.

Actually, Sheen was given the choice (by Pius XII) of six or seven locations around the world. Sheen chose Rochester because it was close to NYC, which he loved (and NYers loved him). He could have stayed in the NY archdiocese, but the tension between him and Spellman was so great that he didn't want to remain under Spellman. They are both laid to rest under the altar of St. Patrick's Cathedral.

97 posted on 10/25/2002 7:53:41 AM PDT by ELS
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To: Maximilian
Oops! I guess I haven't had enough coffee (or sleep) today. It couldn't have been Pius XII who offered Sheen a choice of diocese. Well, whoever was Pope at the time... Pius XII was the Pope who mediated the conflict between Spellman and Sheen and determined that Sheen was right.
98 posted on 10/25/2002 7:59:03 AM PDT by ELS
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To: ELS
He said that Sheen's strengths did not include diocese administration. Sheen was a brilliant mind that was able to effectively communicate the beauty and wisdom of the Catholic Faith to the masses in an appealing way.

That excerpt was from First Things, although you can see that Neuhaus is also quoting from James Hitchcock's review of the book.

Sheen was infected with "Americanism." This was a heresy condemned by Pope Leo XIII. During the strong administration of Pope Pius XII, it was kept under control. But after Vatican II it broke out in a lethal manner.

One doesn't have to be a good administrator to avoid designating oneself "an agent of change in the Catholic Church." Why would he chortle with glee at the destruction of 400 years of Catholic history, and how can one be tricked into supporting contraception?

The dispute between Sheen and Spellman that was mediated by Pope Pius XII was over money. Who got to keep all the money, Sheen's organization or the diocese? Sheen gave away tens of millions of dollars, but he wanted to control the giving away.

Here is the encyclical by Pope Leo XIII condemning the heresy of "Americanism":
Pope Leo XIII Testem Benevolentiae "On Americanism"

99 posted on 10/25/2002 8:53:57 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
One doesn't have to be a good administrator to avoid designating oneself "an agent of change in the Catholic Church."

I made no such connection. I was referring to the daily logistical, structural measurements of effectiveness. He had had very little experience running a parish or a diocese. As bright as he was, that doesn't automatically mean he could effectively administer a diocese. The only time in Sheen's career prior to Rochester that he was an administrator was when he was pastor of a parish in Illinois before earning his doctorate degree.

You seem to make him out to be a Modernist in orthodox clothing. I don't think so. Mr. Reeves said that although he started out gung ho regarding the implementation of VII, he soon became very disheartened (which may have been a reason he asked to retire ASAP, so he could go back to speaking, writing, etc.) with what was actually happening. There was a convent in the diocese of Rochester that he refused to visit because the "nuns" had become so radical.

I haven't read Reeves' biography, yet. But, I will be obtaining a copy and reading it soon.

100 posted on 10/25/2002 7:31:36 PM PDT by ELS
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