Question the Practice of Halloween... Or the Christian Practice of Satanism

The Sir Francis Dashwood Journal | 10-31-02 | Sir Francis Dashwood

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

It never ceases to amaze me that most Christians would criticize me for being an atheist, yet they will "celebrate" a macabre pagan holiday. They inculcate their children into the practice of it and feed them the most unhealthful things you could give a child to eat.

Likewise, many atheists criticize me for being a "right-winger." Most atheists are so caught up in their polemics, they have become nothing more than anti-Christians - or what I call the Religious Left (a collaboration of the Marxist religion, neo-pagan animal/tree/earth worshipper eco-fascists and general technophobes).

Why do you "celebrate" on certain "holidays," what are you celebrating, do you really know? Or have you been so lost in the conformity of it all to really take a look at what you partake in?

As you ponder this, two noted Christian philosophers support my secular argument...

Søren Kierkegaard from The Sickness Unto Death:

The fantastic is, of course, most closely related to the imagination [Phantasien], but the imagination is related in it’s turn to feeling, understanding, and will, so that a person’s feelings, understanding and will may be fantastic. Fantasy is, in general the medium of infinitization… (emphasis mine)

The fantastic is generally speaking what carries a person into the infinite in such a way that it only leads him away from himself and thus prevents him from coming back to himself.

Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan:

Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness

Chap. xlv. Of Demonology and other Relics of the Religion of the Gentiles.

[14] An image, in the most strict signification of the word, is the resemblance of something visible: in which sense the fantastical forms, apparitions, or seemings of visible bodies to the sight, are only images; such as are the show of a man or other thing in the water, by reflection or refraction; or of the sun or stars by direct vision in the air; which are nothing real in the things seen, nor in the place where they seem to be; nor are their magnitudes and figures the same with that of the object, but changeable, by the variation of the organs of sight, or by glasses; and are present oftentimes in our imagination, and in our dreams, when the object is absent; or changed into other colours, and shapes, as things that depend only upon the fancy. And these are the images which are originally and most properly called ideas and idols, and derived from the language of the Grecians, with whom the word eido signifieth to see. They are also called phantasms, which is in the same language, apparitions. And from these images it is that one of the faculties of man's nature is called the imagination. And from hence it is manifest that there neither is, nor can be, any image made of a thing invisible.

[15] It is also evident that there can be no image of a thing infinite: for all the images and phantasms that are made by the impression of things visible are figured. But figure is quantity every way determined, and therefore there can be no image of God, nor of the soul of man, nor of spirits; but only of bodies visible, that is, bodies that have light in themselves, or are by such enlightened.

[16] And whereas a man can fancy shapes he never saw, making up a figure out of the parts of divers creatures, as the poets make their centaurs, chimeras and other monsters never seen, so can he also give matter to those shapes, and make them in wood, clay or metal. And these are also called images, not for the resemblance of any corporeal thing, but for the resemblance of some phantastical inhabitants of the brain of the maker. But in these idols, as they are originally in the brain, and as they are painted, carved moulded or molten in matter, there is a similitude of one to the other, for which the material body made by art may be said to be the image of the fantastical idol made by nature.

As you think further, exactly what is Halloween?

Originally, All Hallows' Eve was one of the great fire festivals of Britain at the time of the Druids. In Scotland it was associated with the time when the spirits of the dead, the demons, witches, and sorcerers were usually active and propitious.

Paradoxically, All Hallows' Eve was also a night when young people performed magical rituals to determine their future marriage partners. The youth of the villages carried on with much merry-making and sensual revelry, but the older people took great care to safeguard their homes from the evil spirits, witches, and demons who had exceptional power that night...

Can you guess my source here???

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

I Corinthians 6:19

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

I Corinthians 6:19

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

You see beauty in Satan?

I'm an atheist, remember?

However, the Bible does claim that Lucifer was the most beautiful of your God's creations.

In addition, I will direct you to something entirely different concerning an instructive message about the human body:

I Corinthians 6:19

[Irisshlass]

However, the Bible does claim that Lucifer was the most beautiful of your God's creations.

was...as Luther...was...

[LadyDoc]

I Corinthians 6:19 has to do with sexual sin, if you read the entire paragraph. It is an argument against people who like Bill Clinton think as long as they go to church and do good deeds, that sexual sin is not important.

That said, in the history of Christianity there are two threads. One is Puritan: That anything smacks of paganism is evil and cannot be redeemed. So throw out Christmas, which is a pagan feast, as well as Easter.

The other one says that things that are good and beautiful and helpful can be baptised with Christian meanings.
The danger of the first approach is that it descends to dull narrowminded legalism. The danger of the second one is that such celebrations can revert to forget the Lord.
Calvin followed the first one (Luthur did not).
Catholicism traditionally follows the second way.
It recognizes that God works in the culture.

Haloween is the extention of All Saints day, on Nov 1.
As usually practiced, children dress like heros, or sometimes as Ghosts etc. They can emulate heros, and by trivilaizing ghosts and creatures they fear, allow them to confront their fears with laughter. It is also a way to get to know your neighbors, and increases solidarity in the neighborhoods.

If Christians ignore the feast, it allows the negative to take it over.

One reason art and music in the US is so anti Christian is because too many puritanical churches ignored art and music as "pagan" influences.

Is God calling you to withdraw into solitude to keep the faith alive, or is this withdraw the need to feel superior to "pagans"?

And for those who celebrate, is God saying a harmless holiday where children emulate heroes okay, or is it because you are too weak to oppose the growing occult movement that has hijacked Haloween?

[Catholicguy]

However, the Bible does claim that Lucifer was the most beautiful of your God's creations

<> Citation?<>

[al_c]

Ahhh, you do admit to the "ritualization" of it.

Of course it's a ritual. Going through your daily routine of getting out of bed, getting dressed and going to work is a ritual. Does that make it a bad thing?

[al_c]

I think God wants Christians to be a little discerning in what they celebrate.

Exaclty! If someone is celebrating the original intent of Halloween, then they are not choosing the way of God. If it's just kids going from door to door for candy and dressing up like their favorite superhero, I don't think it's a problem. Likewise Easter. If one is participating in the original pagan celebration, that's bad ... if they're celebrating the day the Lord rose from they dead, that's good.

[Irisshlass]

I'm wondering how many Christians will come here to defend their practice of Satanism...

Doesn't it seem strange that Halloween is also the day celebrated as Reformation Day October 31, 1517..

[RnMomof7]

If someone is celebrating the original intent of Halloween, then they are not choosing the way of God. If it's just kids going from door to door for candy and dressing up like their favorite superhero, I don't think it's a problem

God will not be mocked al...Your intent does not matter to Satan..He is thrilled that you put your kids out there to celebrate HIS day

Would you just look at the "moral" lessons of Halloween?

Dress up ..be something you are not...then beg (threaten people ) to get your physical desires met..

"Trick or treat money or eats"....blackmail

Then look at the costumes...who do the children want to look like? Sexualized barbie? monsters? ahhhhh and the ever popular witches..

This is not a PAGAN day ..it is a witchcraft day....

The god of this world is worshiped and celebrated..lights are hung to welcome him..

I think many adults remember they "good time" they had on that day and they want their kids to have "nice memories" of the "fall" holiday too

God says this to you now al

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The hardest thing I ever did after I became a Christian was to remove this stuff from our lives and home.But who ever said obedience was easy?

[al_c]

He is thrilled that you put your kids out there to celebrate HIS day

We're actually staying home. But even if we were going out, it wouldn't be to celebrate "his day." This question was asked yesterday ... What would happen if some satanic nuts decided to celebrate Jeffrey Dahmers murderers every year at a certain time by ritually killing and eating people? And what would happen if over the years more and more people joined in? And if after a thousand years or so it was considered quite fun to celebrate it. And after a while Christians join in and honor the day by having childrens parties on or near the day? Would it be okay? Or would the original founders of the holiday be glad that their observance had made such an impact on society?

Silly analogy, but in the case of Halloween, my answer would be ... Actually, I think the founders of the holiday would be quite angry that their celebration was turned into something else that left little to nothing of the original intent in place.

[Pahuanui]

Care to comment on Thomas Hobbes?

Not particularly.

[al_c]

Then look at the costumes...who do the children want to look like? Sexualized barbie? monsters? ahhhhh and the ever popular witches

Not once to I recall ever dressing up as any of the above. The one childhood costume that sticks in my mind is Robin and my brother was Batman. Over the years, my nephews and niece have been Teletubbies (okay ... they're evil) beanie babies, a pickle, pilgrims, Star Wars characters, M&Ms, etc.

[RnMomof7]

I just don't think WE think about it much..it is so culturally correct...

[The Bard]

Just a few years ago I wuold have been agrued that there was nothing wrong with Halloween. Now my family will not take part in it, at least not in the "traditional" way.

The Church is having a childrens fellowship. The kids can dress a their favorite Bible character. The evening will be fill with Bible stories, trivia and games. My wife will take the kids to this.

I will be at home passing out small treat bags containing candy, a christian tract and church flier. How much easier of a way is there to spread the word of God? Kids and their parents are literally knocking at my door!

[katnip]

Ancient Druids who inhabited what we now call Great Britain placed great importance on the passing of one season to the next, holding "Fire Festivals" which were celebrated for three days (two days on either side of the day itself).

One of these festivals was called Samhain (pronounced Sha-Von) and it took place on October 31 through to November 1. During this period, it was believed that the boundaries between our world and the world of the dead were weakened, allowing spirits of the recently dead to cross over and possess the living.

In order to make themselves and their homes less inviting to these wayward spirits, the ancient Celts would douse all their fires. There was also a secondary purpose to this, after extinguishing all their fires, they would re-light them from a common source, the Druidic fire that was kept burning at Usinach, in the Middle of Ireland.

Samhain was considered to be a gateway not only from the land of the dead to the land of the living, but also between Summer and Fall/Winter. For the Druids, this was the last gasp of summer (it was also the Celtic New Year), so therefore they made sure it went out with a bang before they had to button down for the winter ahead.

They would dress up in bizarre costumes and parade through their villages causing destruction in order to scare off any recently departed souls who might be prowling for bodies to inhabit, in addition to burning animals and other offerings to the Druidic deities. It is also a popular belief that they would burn people who they believed to be possessed, but this has largely been debunked as myth.

This yearly festival was adopted by the Roman invaders, who helped to propagate it throughout the rest of the world (and at that time, the Roman Empire was the world). The word "Halloween" itself actually comes from a contraction of All Hallows Eve, or All Saint's Day (November 1), which is a Catholic day of observance in honour of saints.

This tradition was later brought to the North American continent by Irish immigrants who were escaping the Potato Famine in their homeland. In addition to the festival itself, the immigrants brought several customs with them, including one of the symbols most commonly associated with Halloween -- the Jack 'O Lantern.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There is not one mention of glorifying or honoring Satan in this Celtic tradition.
You're trying to make up evil intent, when there never was one.

[katnip]

I find the name you picked for yourself quite interesting............

Sir Francis Dashwood is one of those colourful characters from our past whose life was shrouded in controversy, half-truths and gossip. During his day it was widely rumoured that he and his group were evil Devil worshippers, Satanist’s up to all sorts of diabolical doings, rituals and orgies, many of which in today’s more enlightened times, few if any people would even raise an eye brow. He was an aristocrat and a man of influence but also the rogue of his day, he reveled in his indulgences living his life to the full and not giving a damn for the consequences.

[Loyalist]

Most of these folks have litle sense of humor.

Do you believe that encouraging children to celebrate the high holy day of modern occultism, a feast whose origins lie in Druidism, spirit worship and animal sacrifice, is a matter for humour?

Isn't it strange that one of our resident atheists can see the incongruity of Christians celebrating an occult holiday, but a soi-disant champion of Catholic orthodoxy can't?

[Catholicguy]

<> Ever heard of the Church "Mary sopra Minerva?<>

[Loyalist]

The temple to Minerva was destroyed, and her cult repudiated, well before that church was built.

I fail to see what that has to do with Hallowe'en.