BigMack
Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
A cheesesteak sandwich is not rabbinically kosher, but it is Torah kosher. It would be next to impossible for me to keep rabbinic kosher standards where I live, even if I believed it to be necessary. I'd have to do most of my grocery shopping in Milwaukee.
I would expect you to understand better, how such things are contextualised. Mary is a passageway, a channel.
Unless you think that the lamp cord is the electricity, you should not have a problem discerning these things.
SD
Would be a miracle if that steak and cheese came from the same cow. :-)
Why is the presumption made that Jesus needed Apostles to help Him found His Church, but He does not need them anymore?
If they were necessary to run the Church well at the beginning, why are they not now?
SD
You didn't say it fast enough. :-)
Context:
1) He is "the Bread of Life" (He WAS the manna sent down from heaven - you ate it or you died physically)
2) He is "The Lamb of God" (our Passover sacrifice - You ate it or you died - you didn't just kill it and sprinkle blood-
"My word are Spirit and Life" - Now falure to eat and drink is to die spiritually.
So even you don't like my analogies. :o(
I would expect you to understand better, how such things are contextualised.
There exists a threshold where the content of what is said overrides the accompanying disclaimer. Consider the anti-war protesters, who are always quick to assert "but we support our troops".
We obviously disagree as to whether or not this threshold was surpassed in these examples.
BigMack
By the letter of what it says, it would have to be the milk of the mother of the cow you are eating. Then again, it says "kid", not calf. Since I don't use goat cheese, or eat goat meat, I guess I'm okay! ;o)
Exactly
The organizers of the "peace riots" know that their protestations of support for the troops is a lie.
We obviously disagree as to whether or not this threshold was surpassed in these examples.
Obviously. I have been poking at this for days and I am still unable to get any specific answers.
What do you think makes Mary divine? Why are our "protestations" to the contrary ineffective?
Reggie almost answered, and was making some point about being born perfect as a human meanign one was divine. Why this is different from being born imperfect and then perfected later was not answered.
I make another analogy about roles that we would play in heaven, but there is no serious response to that.
So what is it that makes people see these things and assume that we consider Mary divine?
SD
Me too. I try and do Torah Kosher. I'll leave most of the rabbinical stuff to you. I do like some of it tho. :-)
Why this language means that is never explained, but it is axiomatic.
SD
v63 is not the equivalent of Jesus shouting "opposite!" like a fourth grader. It makes Jesus a liar. "This is my Body" is not at all the same as "this is kinda sorta like my Body"
how do we expect the Holy Spirit to come upon Mary without destroying her unless she is first made clean, a worthy receptacle for God to reside in? Are you "divine" Dave? Does the HS dwell within you? Again, a clean, sinless human being is not "divine." Do you understand that there is a difference, an unbridgeable gulf between being a created human and being a divine, uncreated god?
Just a repeat question. Does not the HS (God) dwell within you?
That aside, I was made clean upon my Baptism. That is what it is for, for removing sin and for giving the gift of the Holy Spirit. This was allowed because I was born after Jesus came to live on the earth, after He established His Church. .
How old were you when you were baptized? You talking about when you were an infant? I thought you had already decided that a new born is not a sinner. So now are you saying you were baptized to remove your sin?
Mary, on the other hand, lived before Jesus came to the earth. Without the benefit of Christian Baptism, she would have had no way of removing her sin prior to the Holy Ghost overshadowing her. So God cleansed her in a special way, so that she could be a dwelling place for the Lord.
How do you know she wasn't baptized ?
Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying! Who can listen to it?" But Jesus knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble? Then what if you would see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?They were saying "He can't seriously mean it" and Jesus answers "If you can't believe what I tell you in plain language, how will you ever understand when I am gone"
He is proven right once again.
"My words are Spirit and Life" - Can only mean "what I say to you is True and you had better accept it"
Mary isn't divine. Some Catholics (undoubtedly a fewer percentage today than in times past) treat her as if she were functionally divine. They pray to her, hope for favors from her, and treat her as if she were omniscient and omnipotent. The title "Mediatrix of All Graces" says that all divine blessings must come through her.
And this isn't even considering the entire question of praying to (vs. for) the dead. I understand the Catholic reasoning on this, but I don't agree with it. The scriptural prohibitions against it are pretty plain.
It removes the stain of original sin which the child cannot undo. He could (in theory only) avoid personal sin, but cannot get rid of the sin ingerited from his father (Adam).
Dave made a distinction between actual personal sin and original sin. Of course, in an adult, it works pretty well on personal sins as well. :-)
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