Posted on 10/02/2023 11:57:46 AM PDT by ADSUM
“The Catholic Church teaches that when we partake of the Eucharist in Holy Communion, we are consuming the actual physical body of Jesus Christ (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1244, 1275, 1375).”
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.com ...
got any keywords/
Speaking of keywords, I was at a County Lincoln Day Dinner last night speaking with a friend of ten years or so and could not remember his name until about two hours later.
...and then today,
I dug through one of the book boxes and there it was “The Kolob Theorem” by Lynn M. Hilton PhD. Purchased for one dollar from Deseret Industries a local Idaho Falls thrift store. Very thrifty, the only question how long will it remain thrifty under the pressure of today’s economy.
Nice work.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me.
One cherry picked quote from a thousand pages.
You are well aware that anyone can pretty much justify any course through scripture. That is the primary reason for confusion among the many doctrines of man, and without prophets or Christ Jesus in person, you are never going to solve the conundrum.
I don’t think any of that stuff is going pass muster especially in the Kingdom of God. It certainly doesn’t recognize the sacrifice required of man of a broken heart and contrite spirit.
—> You are well aware that anyone can pretty much justify any course through scripture. That is the primary reason for confusion among the many doctrines of man, and without prophets or Christ Jesus in person, you are never going to solve the conundrum.
Dear boatbums was responding to the specific criticism of me by adsum saying I’d chosen the easy path of grace.
She quoted the Savior who said His yoke is easy.
My question to you: How can multiple thousands of versions of the protestant beliefs all be correct and in agreement with God’s Truths?
Or the tens of millions of Catholic denominations - where each member picks and chooses what to believe and adds whatever else they prefer.
How could they all be true??
They most assuredly can’t be the true Church, but they can contain a potload of truth nevertheless.
That goes for both Protestant and Catholic as well as so called cults which are no more no less engaged in teaching of Jesus Christ and his Gospel as Protestants and Catholics.
They may very well all be wrong, but there is no way they can all be right.
Just when ya think FR has hit rock bottom...
Nice way to try to distance oneself from former church leaders teachings.
How long?
Didja see any YOUNG folks buying books?
Shoot a shotgun into a flock of ducks and you’re probably gonna hit at least one.
Likewise...
You are well aware that anyone can pretty much deny any course if it ain't scripture.
Heck; they could do this if it WAS scripture; too!
My GPS will create a trip for me from A to B.
It can involve many miles and turns and different roads.
If I follow it’s directions; I’ll end up where planned.
But, miss one of them, anywhere along the route; then - guess what?
I am lost.
Soul sleep has a better case and is better than Purgatory, but the sleep part need only refer to the body being raised, as a testimony in judgment of what was done in it. For there are texts which speak of souls being conscious before the resurrections. Such as,
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (Luke 16:22-23)
Here, souls are conscious after death, and experiencing two contrasting moralities. This is not a parable, for in this genre known physical realities are used which represent spiritual equivalents, and the Lord never used real names or science fiction. However, the Lord used real names here, while if the dead know nothing, but Laz and the rich man represent classes and a spiritual reality, then for the first and only time the Lord is using science fiction.
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (Revelation 6:9-10)
Here again, souls are conscious after death, without a physical head (separated Christians), though the pretrib rapturists would say such were part of the first resurrection.
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:42-43)
Here, the next place contrite criminal will be is with the Lord, in paradise, not the grave. (And moving the comma to after "Today" does not make grammatical sense (when else would He tell the man that?).
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)
This best denotes conscious souls being preached to, and it is hardly tenable that prison here is just the grave.
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (Ephesians 4:7-10)
This is correspondent with Abraham's bosom being paradise, to which OT believers went, since while God forgave sins before the final atonement, in recognizance of it, yet "it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4) and thus, with the earthly tabernacle/holy places being "figures of the true" (Hebrews 9:24) that of type and anti-type, "The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing, Which was a figure for the time then present" (Hebrews 9:8,9) into which only the High Priest, being a figure of Christ could enter, and which He did, "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." (Hebrews 9:12) Thus, at the cry of "It is finished," (Jn. 19:30) behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent (Matthew 27:51) signifying the way into the holy of holies was opened. And thus after his resurrection, many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Therefore believers have "boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," (Hebrews 10:19) by the sinless shed blood of Christ, "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." (1 Peter 3:22)
Which is also correspondent to Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.. (Ephesians 4:9-11) And with paradise now being the third heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:4) Not also that neither Enoch (Genesis 5:24) nor Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) are actually said to have entered into God's presence in heaven, as the word for heaven is not specific of that (though it can denote it), but usually refers to the visible realm above, from the atmosphere to space.
Meaning that prior to the perfect atonement of Christ OT believers were in paradise/Abraham's bosom, this being the other side of Hades, with a "great gulf" separating this place of comfort from the "place of torment," (Luke 16:26,28) but the perfect atonement of Christ split the veil, and opened up the holy of holies for believers to enter by the sinless shed blood of Christ. And while being quickened by the Spirit, the Lord of all also went and preached unto the disobedient spirits in prison, (1 Peter 3:19) perhaps revealing that, like as those who died never having heard of Christ, yet in rejecting the light they had which would have led them to Christ, (cf. John 12:35,36; Romans 2:14016) then they were essentially rejecting Him who gives light to all who come into this world, (John 1:9) and declaring His victory. I say "perhaps" since I do not know of anything corespondent and confirmatory to this.
In any case, we have substantial testimony and with complimentary texts to souls being conscious after death, which is not in necessary conflict with sleeping in death and bodily resurrection, for the former refers to the spiritual aspect and the other, that of the physical.
Adding to this, are the conclusive words of Solomon, Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:6-7)
And that of Paul, We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8) For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: (Philippians 1:23) In whose "presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore." (Psalms 16:11)
All of which stands illustrates how a complimentary confluence of Scriptures works to provide illumination.
—> My question to you: How can multiple thousands of versions of the protestant beliefs all be correct and in agreement with God’s Truths?
All true believers share the core beliefs of the faith.
Primarily, the Gospel of Grace that alone is the path to salvation.
They also often practice differently.
“ In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity”
……….
• My question to you is how can your created Jesus be God, since he hadn’t always existed?
• How could the Mormon father god be god since he was a created being and not eternal?
• How can the Mormon spirit be god since he was created and wasn’t eternal?
• How can you have more than one god who is *sovereign*??
• How can you ever have more than one god who is *omnipotent*?
• How can you have any Mormon god who wasn’t always god, since the God of Scripture is *immutable*?
Hyperbole much? In a book of almost 800,00 words, with multiple literary genres, and even more idioms/figures of speech, as well as a vast number of topics, and translated from 3 different languages, and in 3 basic types (word for word as KJV, NASB, YLT, versus paraphrase like The "Living Bible", and "dynamic equivalence" like NIV) from two streams of manuscripts, from vast numbers of manuscripts, mostly partial, of copies (due to antiquity) then it is quite Amazing that Bible Christians are overall so unified, so much so that fundamental disagreements usually are a result of holding to another stream of wholly God-inspired revelation, and or uncritical faith in leadership (Catholicism, cults). Or ignorance of basic principals of interpretation, most of which we typically use in everyday communication.
Tell me what fundamental disagreements you think are otherwise.
Your comment: “I’m defending what I believe is the truth the Bible teaches.”
It appears to be your opinion (and the opinion of many protestants) of the words of Jesus that the Eucharist is not truly the Body and Blood of Jesus as God and Man.
Adam and Eve were deceived by the lies of Satan, and Satan continues to lead many astray from God.
I hope the Holy Spirit will guide you and others to understand and accept all of God’s Truths.
I wish you well and I will will pray for your continued physical and spiritual health recovery at Mass.
Many Catholics (myself included) have walked away from the Catholic Church for a time (even a long time) and come back with greater understanding and love of God. My brother came back to the Mass and the Sacraments just before he died this year.
Today is the Feast of Our Lady of Champion, Champion WI (near Green Bay). It is known for miracle cures and is a peaceful place to visit.
CCC 172 Through the centuries, in so many languages, culture, peoples, and nations, the Church has constantly confessed this one faith, received from the one Lord, transmitted by one Baptism, and grounded in the conviction that all people have only one God and Father.
CCC 177 Faith is adherence of the whole man to God who reveals himself.
CCC 18 “To believe” has thus a twofold reference to the person and to the truth: to the truth, by trust in the person who bears witness to it.
CCC 182 We believe all “that which is contained in the word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church proposes for belief as divinely revealed”.
God nor His Church forces one to believe in God’s revealed truths. If individuals or groups of Catholics believe in something contrary to God’s truths, then that is not the Deposit of Faith. We choose to believe or not to believe in God’s whole truth, whether we fully understand it.
There is a range of Catholics from saints to sinners. They are in a process to learn God’s truth. Some of the worst sinners become saints as they seek God’s Truth and learn to live it. (St Augustine for example)
The Eucharist (”Take and eat; This is My Body” and “Drink of it, all of you for this is my Blood of the covenant”) is either Jesus Christ (or not) as God and man, as He told us and the Apostles believed and offered the Eucharist at Mass and passed this down as part of the Catholic faith.
Ever thought of geezerizing you comments so I don’t have to scroll to the top of the page to find 316 and prove to myself you were attempting to put words in my mouth?
I know I’ve probably done the same to you.
My son buys books by the garage load as a side business to his day job.
As to seeing young people buying books, anyone buying is usually younger that I.
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