Posted on 07/14/2021 5:25:10 AM PDT by Cronos
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church believe in the Rapture?
Eastern Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics and some mainline Protestants view the Rapture as heretical teaching of the Christian faith. It was not preached or believed prior to 1830 A.D. when John Nelson Darby individually proclaimed that his teaching is what the Bible says Christ will do when he comes again. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John or any of the writers of the Bible or Christian church fathers did not preach about the Rapture.
The Rapture teaches the four comings of Jesus — first, his birth in Bethlehem; second, his secret coming to snatch away (Rapture) the select few; third, his thousand-year reign; and fourth, the final judgment at the end of time. In the Bible, there are only two, not four, comings of Christ.
Passages of Scripture that allude to the event of the Rapture are in actuality referring to the second coming or final judgment of Christ. He will return a second time to judge the living and the dead, whose kingdom will have no end.
The Rapture teaches that select born-again Christians will float into the clouds — no matter where they are or what they are doing — to meet the Lord in the clouds.
If they are driving, their passengers may die. If they are a pilot flying a plane, their passengers may most likely die in a plane crash. If they are a surgeon in the middle of surgery, the patient probably might die. If they are parents with young children and babies, who will take care of the abandoned children?
A better explanation of this heretical teaching can be viewed below
GW, it seems to me that EVERY group that claims Christ as their Savior thinks that their way is the best, if not only, way.
Remember that the Olivet discourse talks about the 8 signs that Jesus said would lead to the Temple's destruction that were important for the Apostles to recognize
Jesus then mentions in 24:21 the Great Tribulation - which is for the Jesus-movement Jews.
There has never been, nor will there ever be anything rivaling it. The Church was close to being smothered in its cradle if Nero continued and the Jerusalem Christians had not escaped to Pella - this was a tiny community, primarily Jewish and was attacked by both the Roman authorities AND the Jewish authorities. That WAS the great tribulation
THEN, in Matt 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved - This is apocalyptic language exactly referring to Isaiah 13:10-13 The stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising and the moon will not shed its light... I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place" - Jesus is foretelling the overthrow of nero and the Sanhedrin. He draws a parallel between the shaking of Babylon and the shaking of Jerusalem (and that's the basis of John's vision in the book of revelations)
This is also reflected in Haggai 2:6-7 Thus says that Lord of hosts: Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land; and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the Lord of hosts
This splendor is Christ and the house is the Church. The Sanhedrin was uprooted forever, never to be validly re-established again.
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I'm finally answering your question, apologies for the background lenght
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Now to Matt 24:30-31 Then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds on heaven with power and great glory; and He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other -- and on reading this with Daniel we have
3. Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Thus there was a star 20 resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, 21 [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner 22 [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple, 23 began on a sudden to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!" This was his cry, as he went about by day and by night, in all the lanes of the city. However, certain of the most eminent among the populace had great indignation at this dire cry of his, and took up the man, and gave him a great number of severe stripes; yet did not he either say any thing for himself, or any thing peculiar to those that chastised him, but still went on with the same words which he cried before. Hereupon our rulers, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" And when Albinus [for he was then our procurator] asked him, Who he was? and whence he came? and why he uttered such words? he made no manner of reply to what he said, but still did not leave off his melancholy ditty, till Albinus took him to be a madman, and dismissed him. Now, during all the time that passed before the war began, this man did not go near any of the citizens, nor was seen by them while he said so; but he every day uttered these lamentable words, as if it were his premeditated vow, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" Nor did he give ill words to any of those that beat him every day, nor good words to those that gave him food; but this was his reply to all men, and indeed no other than a melancholy presage of what was to come. This cry of his was the loudest at the festivals; and he continued this ditty for seven years and five months, without growing hoarse, or being tired therewith, until the very time that he saw his presage in earnest fulfilled in our siege, when it ceased; for as he was going round upon the wall, he cried out with his utmost force, "Woe, woe to the city again, and to the people, and to the holy house!" And just as he added at the last, "Woe, woe to myself also!" there came a stone out of one of the engines, and smote him, and killed him immediately; and as he was uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost.
The great Tribulation already happened
It happened under Nero from 64 AD to 67 AD
"During his reign many abuses were severely punished and put down, and no fewer new laws were made....Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition."
Suetonius, Nero (XVI.2)
The fire that began in the shops at the Circus Maximus on the night of July 18, AD 64 raged for nine days, burning itself out on the sixth and then suspiciously flaring up again on the estate of Tigellinus, Nero's praetorian prefect (Tacitus, Annals, XV.40; Suetonius, Life of Nero, XXXVIII.2). Nearly two-thirds of Rome burned, including the Palatine Hill, and countless persons died. "There was no curse that the populace did not invoke upon Nero, though they did not mention his name" (Dio, Roman History, LXII.18.2-3). Tacitus goes on to relate that innumerable buildings and temples were lost, including ancient shrines, the spoils of earlier victories, "the glories of Greek art, and yet again the primitive and uncorrupted memorials of literary genius" (XV.41); in short, adds Suetonius, destroying "whatever else interesting and noteworthy had survived from antiquity" (XXXVIII.2).
Although many of the populace believed that Nero intentionally had started the fire (Dio, LXII.17.18.3; Pliny, Natural History, XVII.1), he himself blamed the Christians. Because of their supposed hatred of mankind, he had them thrown to dogs, nailed to crosses in his gardens, and burned alive (the traditional punishment for arson) to serve as living torches in the night (Tacitus, XV.44; this passage also contains the earliest non-Christian reference to the crucifixion). Probably taking place in the Vatican gardens, where Nero had his private racetrack, the emperor strolled among the crowd in the guise of a charioteer. It also was to Nero that Paul had appealed from the tribunal at Caesarea (Acts 25:10ff) and in whose reign Peter and Paul traditionally were thought to have been executed at Rome (e.g., Eusebius,
Sod off atheist troll.
Including yours.
What are you talking about? The Catholic church hasn’t declared the rapture heresy. It’s just another wacky idea like Soul Sleep, “Jesus is the archangel Michael”, “Semites were in pre-columbus America” —> all three of these 19th century philosophies emerged in 19th century America
A lot of Christian inter-group fights are sadly political. I would actually argue that all of them are political and some have doctrine wrapped around it.
The first great schism - with the “Nestorians” and the Assyrian Church of the East was PURELY political imho. The Assyrian Church of the East which had its Catholicos (leader) in Ctesiphon, the Capital of the Sassanid Persian Empire.
The Sassanids were tolerant of Christians before 378 AD - in fact as the Romans were persecuting Christians, the Iranians were saving them. But that changed when Christianity was declared state religion in 378 AD by Theodosius. Then they became a third column. So the Ctesiphon church was happy enough to take the term “Nestorian” though their beliefs are from Babai the great. They spread from Iraq to Mongolia and to India.
The split with the Coptic/Ethiopian/Armenians was clearly “Roman-Greeks” vs everyone else and the Coptic one in particular looked nationalistic.
The East-West split was clearly political - the East in 1054 was rich, high in culture and spoke only Greek, no Latin. The West was divided, militaristic/barbarian and spoke little Greek. Until 800 the Western Christians considered the emperor in Constantinople as the Emperor of all, but then started the political disputes.
And the 16th century split was heavily political as well.
You prove my point.
According to the bible, Paul says when he was around Jews he acted like a Jew which means when he wasn't around Jews he didn't act like one.
1 Co 9:20
"To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law."
This is true, and I myself believe that God will preserve His elect thru the Great Trib and then take them up as part of the first resurrection, which day of Christ, the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him" (2 Thessalonians 2:1) shall not come, "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)
After that "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
And will go with Him to fight in the Battle or Armageddon:
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:14-15)
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 14-15)
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:19-20)
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Revelation 20:1-3)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4-6)
Also after the first resurrection is the judgment seat of Christ which is not that of the Great White Throne judgment, which is part of the day of Christ, of His appearing before the 1,000 year reign, and which is not to determine who is saved or lost and their particular punishment, but is the judgment of the elect, which determines their rewards of less thereof based upon their manner of workmanship they helped build church with. Yet one is saved despite loss, and not because of such:
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:4-5)
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 1:7)
Thus Paul saidHenceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8)
And
they shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are [cf. 19:20], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:6-15)
Now if the first resurrection itself has two parts separated by a thousand years, with the rapture/catching away occurring before the Great Tribulation, then it is a win/win situation for those who prepared for the latter, while if not, then those who believe they would be delivered from it are likely to be disillusioned when experiencing the persecution of the Tribulation. Yet we can hardly expect to be more favored than the first century church which was warned and exhorted "to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." (Acts 14:22)
While can allow for disagreement on this, yet the denial of the 1,000 year reign of Christ - literally referred to 6 times and not "as" in 2 Peter 3:8 simile - is simply untenable in the light of the clear statements which teach of two resurrections and two judgments separated by 1,000 years. Sometimes we have references to one judgment, (John 5:28,29) but further on details of time are given, by the grace of God.
This just meant his message was toward a different audience. He would frame his sermons/speeches to appeal to different sects. This is normal. It’s not deceptive. It’s not hypocritical. He didn’t break any of the Ten Commandments when in either camp. He also followed Mosaic Law as it is to be observed now for the edification of God. But not for Salvation. The sacrificial system and ceremonial laws are no longer applicable.
What are you talking about? The Catholic church hasn’t declared the rapture heresy.
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm
We shouldn’t be living in such a way that we have to decide to prepare ourselves.
That then becomes man’s work in sanctification, not God’s.
If one is living a Christ honoring life of sanctification, then one is always ready.
This concept of thinking that just because we expect to be spared the judgement of the Tribulation we can be lazy and take stuff for granted, is as bad as people who claim that the security of the believer makes one careless about sin and so they go out and sin wantonly.
Someone who is a genuine believer never takes sin lightly and would always want to live a life so that whatever happens, rapture or death, we are as ready as possible to stand before Christ.
So while we are trusting that Jesus will take us out of the world when God pours out His wrath in judgment on it, we also recognize that nobody is guaranteed their next breath.
So if you are ready to die, then you are by default, ready for the rapture.
We shouldn’t be living in such a way that we have to decide to prepare ourselves.
That then becomes man’s work in sanctification, not God’s.
If one is living a Christ honoring life of sanctification, then one is always ready.
This concept of thinking that just because we expect to be spared the judgement of the Tribulation we can be lazy and take stuff for granted, is as bad as people who claim that the security of the believer makes one careless about sin and so they go out and sin wantonly.
Someone who is a genuine believer never takes sin lightly and would always want to live a life so that whatever happens, rapture or death, we are as ready as possible to stand before Christ.
So while we are trusting that Jesus will take us out of the world when God pours out His wrath in judgment on it, we also recognize that nobody is guaranteed their next breath.
So if you are ready to die, then you are by default, ready for the rapture.
In the justification phase of salvation ONLY God is at work. In the sanctification phase of salvation God points out our sinful behaviors to us and expects us to work on it so we do not grieve the Holy Spirit that is abiding in our born again spirit. It is important to learn that there is nothing we can do or not do that will change what God did for us in the Justification phase (John 10:27-30). He desires us to work out our own salvation from the power of sin, but ONLY He can save us from the penalty of sin. And ONLY H can save us from the presence of sin, the presence of the man of sin with the Rapture departure ... coming soon to a planet near here.
Even the work of sanctification is God initiated.
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
What are you smoking?
Firstly you misquote what a guy wrote 500 years ago. Then you think that is dogma when it ain’t.
We’re talking about Christianity here but, not your Seventh day Adventists who believe that Jesus is just the angel Michael. Btw, how do you explain your founder teaching Adventists that black people are descended from a union between humans and animals
Ain’t Grace wonderful?
What are you smoking?
Firstly you misquote what a guy wrote 500 years ago. Then you think that is dogma when it ain’t.
A 1591 edition, 1593 edition, and a 1603 edition of his commentary are now online. (not in English)
https://books.google.com/books?id=doYsUAl-6wcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Preterism and Futurism are CATHOLIC lies, intent on fooling people into believing that they are not the ANTICHRIST power.
Your CATHOLIC church tried to pass it off on the Protestant reformers. They said “no sale, Catholic liars”.
Everyone on this forum should research the bible commentaries of those men who lived during the reformation. THEY REFERENCE THE LIES OF CATHOLIC FUTURISM (and preterism) and their attempts at fooling people into believing they are not the ANTICHRIST power. Pathetic.
Cronos, you believe in Preterism. That comes right from your church.
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