Posted on 08/18/2019 7:05:12 PM PDT by Al Hitan
Today the Church remembers with thanksgiving the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God. Historically, this day was understood to mark her dormition, or "falling asleep," which was most anciently regarded as her natural death and burial. From early on, however, the Church considered that she who conceived and gave birth to the very God of very God, by His Word and Holy Spirit, was also resurrected and ascended into heaven, in both body and soul, soon after her death. There is no word of Holy Scripture to teach these traditions as doctrine, but we should not be too quick to dismiss them as merely pious devotion. Such piety, at its heart, is a confession of that which is the Church's faith in Christ, the Blessed Virgin Mary's Son, our Savior and our God.
St. Mary is uniquely honored among all the saints of God in Christ, not only by the Church, but first of all by the Lord God Himself. He has had mercy upon her, blessed her with His grace and favor, and chosen her above all other women to bear the almighty and eternal Son of God. She is rightly called, and truly is, the Mother of God; for her own dear Son, the Fruit of her womb, is indeed the one true God, begotten of the Father from all eternity. It is from her flesh and blood that the Lord has taken for Himself a true and natural body, bone of her bone and flesh of her flesh, so that henceforth He is true Man, the perfect second Adam, our elder Brother, our kinsman Redeemer, the promised Seed of the Woman, by whom we are reconciled to God. As the ancient fathers of the Church confessed, God thus became like us, in order that we become like Him, by grace. It is that great salvation that we celebrate in commemorating any of the saints, and in particular the Blessed Virgin Mother of God, St. Mary.
She is an icon of the Church, a living Sacrament of Christ, and a beautiful example of faith, of all the true children of father Abraham. Her body was comprehended by the Word and Spirit of God to become the tangible means by which the Son of God became flesh and was given to us, and not only for us, but for the life of the world. It is His body, conceived and born of St. Mary, that our sins and sorrows did carry. It is a human body, like our own in every way, save without sin, because He was born of this woman (born under the Law to redeem us). Thus do we recognize in her an archetype of the Blessed Sacrament of our Lord's body and blood.
What is more, in conceiving and giving birth to the Son of God, she is a type of the Church, the holy mother who surely gives birth to the sons of God in Christ. We too have been conceived and given new birth by the same Word and Spirit of the same Holy Triune God that overshadowed the Blessed Virgin Mary and knit within her womb the incarnation of the only-begotten Son. Thus are we, like Him, "born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (St. John 1:13).
Along with her vocation as the woman by whom the Son of God was given to and for the world, St. Mary also stands with us as a living member of the Church, the Body of Christ. When the Word of the Gospel was announced to her, she received that Word in faith, obtained in her by the mercies of God, and meekly bowed her head in humble trust: "Let it be to me according to Thy Word." Blessed is she who has heard the Word of God and kept it, who treasured it in her heart, who believed that there would surely be a fulfillment of all that God had spoken to her. In all of this, St. Mary is one of us, a faithful disciple of her own dear Son, and among that great cloud of witnesses with which we are surrounded, of that blest communion, fellowship divine.
When the Church in pious tradition has considered St. Mary to be resurrected and ascended to heaven, already in both body and soul, it is a confession of faith in that which Christ Jesus our Lord has accomplished for us and for all by His victorious Cross, Resurrection and Ascension. We may indeed contemplate that she by whom the Lord became like us, should exemplify the way in which we all become like Him, recreated in the glorious Image of the Man from heaven. Of course, we do not rest faith upon the tradition of St. Mary's dormition and assumption into heaven; faith clings to Jesus Christ alone and finds true peace and Sabbath rest forever in Him. But what we envision concering St. Mary, we understand to be the Church's hope precisely in Christ our Lord, our Savior and our God. For we know that He is the Resurrection and the Life, and that she who believes in Him will live even if she dies; yes, and everyone who lives and believes in Him will never die.
We believe, teach and confess with the absolute certainty of faith that St. Mary is the Mother of God; that the almighty and eternal Son of the living God was born of this woman, born under the Law, to redeem us who were under the Law. In celebrating that marvelous incarnation of God the Son, in which He died and rose again for us men and our salvation, we may also celebrate proleptically the resurrection of the body that all His saints share with Him by grace through faith in the Gospel. And in that glorious light, we sing: "O higher than the cherubim, more glorious than the seraphim, lead their praises: 'Alleluia!' Thou bearer of the eternal Word, most gracious magnify the Lord: 'Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!"
“God placed Jesus in Mary’s womb”
No. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and the Second Person then, at that moment, took on flesh - Mary’s flesh - in Mary’s womb. Now, I don’t know if the Holy Spirit added any flesh to that flesh (i.e other DNA), but there was no Jesus to be “placed” in Mary’s womb. Jesus - a divine Person who was also a man - did not exist as such until the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. Your logic means Jesus existed before Jesus existed - which is an impossibility.
The Second Person of the Trinity existed, but not Jesus because without flesh there was no Jesus to exist now was there a human soul to be given to Jesus since there was no body to wed it to. This is all correct logic and absolutely irrefutable.
You are wrong. Kurios is translated as *lord* not as *God*. There's a Greek word for *God* and they are distinct words and not interchangeable.
Luke 1:46-47 And Mary said,“My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
https://biblehub.com/text/luke/1-46.htm
The Greek for *lord*.
https://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm
kurios: lord, master
Original Word: κύριος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kurios
Phonetic Spelling: (koo'-ree-os)
Definition: lord, master
Usage: lord, master, sir; the Lord.
The Greek for *God*.
https://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm
theos: God, a god
Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: theos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)
Definition: God, a god
Usage: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.
Yes, the translation is Lord. As in Lord God. See Iscool's post.
“Mary was a human being. God is not a human being.”
Jesus is a man. The Second Person became a man in Mary’s womb.
“The Holy Spirit is not a human being. Jesus was not a human being until he laid aside his Heavenly attributes from his Father in Heaven, and became man to save humanity.”
Jesus was God and man. Period. Mary gave birth to Him. Period. Mary is the mother of God. Period.
“He became man via Mary’s womb and was born a natuaral birth. Mary was the vessel God used to bring His Son into the world as a man. .. to walk among men and save us from an eternal hell.”
Mary was a human being - not just some vessel. She was a mother. Jesus is her son.
“God has no mother and no father.. before the world was I AM. The Holy Spirit is not a human being.... He is the 3rd part of the Trunity.”
Jesus has a mother. This is undeniable. Jesus acknowledges that Mary is His mother. This is undeniable. He never calls her His vessel.
“To give Mary the role of mother to any of these except for Jesus, is making something out of nothing to back up the assumpstion.”
Jesus is God. Mary is His mother. It’s simply not going to change. It’s reality.
“We are not supposed to understand everything. If we were, there would be direct instructions .”
We will not understand everything. We don’t fully understand this. But we know Mary is the mother of God because Jesus, her son, is God.
“My son lost his battle with leukemia 3 years ago and the Lord gave him a vision... visited him... He did not see the face... he saw Jesus’s hands and the people Jesus brought to him in that vision... for a purpose. It was life changing!”
I’m sorry your son died. Mary saw her son - who is God - die too. She also saw her son - who is God - resurrected and walking among men.
“Jesus said He only did what His Father told him... He was in constant contact with his Father.. except on the cross when it seemed Jesus took on the sin of the world for us all.... alone.”
With His mother watching. And what did Jesus say while on the cross? John 19:26-27
I remain unconvinced that you comprehended my point. Perhaps it is over your head.
The point was mine: that you were complaining about all the animosity and attention the one thread was getting when you were one of the active participants. It's apparent that point was over your head.
Nope! You're talking about the Greek. All the verses you posted were from the Old Testament so when you see the word LORD (in all capital letters) printed, it means in the HEBREW the personal name of Almighty God which is "Yahweh" The I AM. It is called a "tetragrammaton". The letters in Hebrew are YHVH or JHVH, also as in "Jehovah". In the Hebrew the word for lord is "adoni". An example of the two different words is found in And they said, The LORD commanded my lord to give the land for an inheritance by lot to the children of Israel: and my lord was commanded by the LORD to give the inheritance of Zelophehad our brother unto his daughters. Numbers 36:2. The translators were respectful of the personal name of God so they used LORD instead of Jehovah or YHVH/JHVH. In the New Testament, the Greek word for lord is kurios, but, again, my comment was about the verses you posted from the Old Testament.
Mary is not in any way the progenitor of the GOD Christ. She can be thought of as the progenitor of the MAN Jesus, even as she was surrogate to His gestational period of human life.
You assert an unprovable item since you have no idea the DNA or chromosomal make up of the man Jesus. And if you are unfamiliar with such things, be advised the womb in which a child gestates adds NOTHING of chromosomal or DNA identity to the child; the gestating child builds ALL of the parts for its life in the air world, the mother if a surrogate adds NOT ONE Chromosome.
Prove your assertion that Jesus took on flesh from MAry.
X
You spittled, “This is all correct logic and absolutely irrefutable.” LOL, you can prove none of it. Try applying your Catholic logic to something else. You fail
Of course I am. The Greek OT, the Septuagint, which was used during the time of Jesus, used the Greek word kurios as the personal name of Almighty God - Lord. Lord God.
I answered that I welcomed a respected the pastor's statement you posted. Do you welcome and respect the pastor's statements I asked you about?
What’s the “air world”?
Will you admit that Mary was a virgin her entire earthly life?
Or do you deny it?
No, you still don't get it. One last time...my point was that the SAME subject matter gets posted on threads over and over again and all that ever results is strife, animosity and discord. Catholics post about their dogmas on Mary; non-Catholics comment and say why we disagree with those beliefs; Catholics get their knickers in a knot and accuse non-Caths of hatred for Mary/heresy/etc.; non-Caths explain why we don't hate Mary and aren't denying the Deity of Jesus and after hundreds or thousands of backing and forthing, all that remains is anger/distrust/disrespect, etc. Then...some Catholic starts the ball rolling all over again (usually the SAME ones who previously did) knowing good and well what will result. Some people see that as stirring up or fomenting flame wars. If Catholics want to post their comforting and reaffirming Catholic Caucus threads that celebrate their dogmas about Mary or other beliefs, nobody usually bothers them. But to post it as an OPEN Religion Forum thread which as you admit invites discussion, then you shouldn't be offended when you get opposing views and you sure shouldn't take occasion to ridicule, mock, berate or snark at fellow Freepers. There should be some discretion on what we post and a sensitivity to how it may be received.
I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but I am weary of the vitriol as well as the snobbish elitism of those who assert ONLY the Roman Catholic Church is the one, true Church of Jesus Christ and all others are inferior ecclesial "communities" that are missing out on the full deposit of the faith. I have no intention of ceasing to respond to threads like this or those that I have an interest in simply because I believe there should be other viewpoints included - mainly so that people hear all sides and that they don't come away thinking Free Republic is an internet arm of the Vatican.
I bear you no ill will and I pray often about this forum and those who gravitate to here. I hope you have a good week and get to spend more time with the grandkids. Though they have all gone to be with the Lord, I will always have fond memories of my times with mine.
Using words like the left does... it isn’t complicated unless you make it so.. God was/is/forever.. “before the world was formed, I AM”. Jesus is called the son of God. He is called Lord... The trinity means 3... God, Holy Spirit, Jesus. Only Jesus came to the earth as a man. God and the Holy Spirit are both here at times... the bible says so. But they are not in human form.. they are not man. They are 3 different entities and different functions.. they are not called by the same name and they do not have a mother, except for Jesus when he became man on the earth.
Mary is the mother of Jesus.. she gave birth to Him... she did not give birth to God. To say she is God’s mother puts God in a lower sphere... needing or having a mother.. it didnt happen.
Use words to make anything as you want it.. does not make it so/true. Mary was not special until she was chosen to be the carrier of the son of God. Why do Catholics make her on a level with Jesus or God. I guess because you were taught to do so., It was Jesus who was the special person in that picture.. not Masry and not Joseph.. Jesus came into the world to save us from our sin... Born of a virgin... and it had to be a virgin birth... to be the perfect sacrifice. The lambs did not take away our sin... Jesus’s shed blood on the cross... did.
It’s amazing how many closet Nestorians there are these days. Good grief!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.