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Don’t Be a Liar
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 01-03-19 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 01/04/2019 8:20:14 AM PST by Salvation

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To: infool7

They remind me of these two devious scoundrels, ganging up on Trump!        :-)


       

201 posted on 01/09/2019 6:30:29 PM PST by Songcraft
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To: Salvation

Thanks, Salvation!

202 posted on 01/09/2019 6:31:16 PM PST by Songcraft
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To: daniel1212
Yes, but the damnation was not because the subjects were not good enough, but because what they impenitently practiced (clearly sin) meant they had denied the faith.

They were not watching their behavior daily. They began to mistreat other people, and they partied and became drunk. The Messiah was speaking directly to His disciples when he said this (answering Peter's question). He also listed two other less severe punishments, being beaten with many stripes, or beaten with a few stripes. This teaching does not quite fit the narrative of denying the faith. It is behavior based.

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. (1 Timothy 5:8)

Do you mean like the sons and daughters of Catholic parents who do not do practice works of charity and respect for them in their old age because they hate Catholicism ?
203 posted on 01/09/2019 6:33:50 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Elsie

"You keep ASKING this but yet you continue to fail to produce just what it is that 'the Scribes and Pharisees bid you to observe and do'."


That direct instruction from Jesus Christ (God) there in Matthew 23:2-3, to "observe and do" something, is given in that same discourse where Jesus says "Call no man father" (Matthew 23:9), so, shouldn't you be taking that other statement quite seriously too?   Given the importance of the words of Jesus, are you saying here that you want me to go do all the research for you, Elsie, to find out what the Scribes and Pharisees bid people to observe and do?   Do you also want me to then go on Amazon, and buy all those books explaining all that stuff for you, and then, do you want me to read all those books to you too, Elsie?

(How about a pizza -- do you want me to also go get you a pizza, then do you want me to eat that pizza for you too, Elsie?)        :-)

(By the way, you still haven't answered my repeated questions (shown here in my post #88), so one thing I WILL do for you, Elsie, is this:   I WILL go ahead and answer those questions for you, honestly, and gratuitously.)

To set those questions up, let's first establish the answer to this first one.



Many years after Jesus issued his instruction to "Call no man 'father'", did the Apostle Paul really call Abraham (a man) "father" of all believers in Romans 4:11-12?
The answer is:   YES, THE APOSTLE PAUL DID CALL A MAN "FATHER" IN ROMANS 4:11-12!
"And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:   And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."   Romans 4:11-12 (KJV)



Was the Apostle Paul disobeying Jesus when he called a man "father" in Romans 4:11-12?   The answer is:   NO!



Was the Apostle Paul doing something wrong when he called a man "father" in Romans 4:11-12?   The answer is:   NO!



Was the Holy Spirit (God) contradicting Jesus Christ (God) when the Holy Spirit inspired the Apostle Paul to call a man "father" in Romans 4:11-12?   The answer is:   NO!



Was the Holy Spirit inspiring the Apostle Paul to do something wrong when the Holy Spirit inspired the Apostle Paul to call a man "father" in Romans 4:11-12?   The answer is:  NO!



The reason those answers are all "NO!", is because Jesus did not mean "Call no man father" literally, but was using hyperbole (such as he often did when speaking, in order to make his points more forcefully), like when he told them to pluck their eyes out, or the time he told them that his disciples had to hate their fathers, mothers, wives, children, brothers, sisters, and even their own lives!

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."   Matthew 5:29 (KJV)


"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."   Luke 14:26 (KJV)




(By the way, think about this:   How could an "offense of the eyes" cause a person to be cast into hell -- like Jesus said there -- if they were "once saved, always saved"?   Was Jesus confused?)

204 posted on 01/09/2019 6:35:35 PM PST by Songcraft
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To: Elsie

"I am quite willing to play the part of Balaam’s ride if need be."


And, by golly, Elsie, I must admit, you seem to be particularly well-suited to assume that role, I'll grant you that!   (If ever a person was made for a role, and a role made for a person...)        :-)

205 posted on 01/09/2019 6:36:53 PM PST by Songcraft
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To: Elsie

"But the Catholic man receiveth not the things of the followers of Luther; for he was a bad dude; dissing the Church and her non-biblical teachings and practices!"


Brother Elsie, (my brother with a sister's name), I've got a wonderful biblical teaching here for you:

"A woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God."
Deuteronomy 22:5
(Back to work now, so, Toodle Loo, Elsie!)

206 posted on 01/09/2019 6:38:37 PM PST by Songcraft
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To: Mark17
You can call your random verse generation anything you want.

False; it is not random; it is purposeful and determinate.

So, according to 1st Corinthians 2:14, who is the spiritual man, and who is the unspirtual, unsaved man?

    There are two aspects to this,
  1. one where the spiritual and natural man are part of a person with a circumcised heart and struggles daily to overcome temptation and sin.
  2. The other is where only the natural man is found.


For example, the Apostle writes how the natural man behaves and commands Christians to lay aside that behavior and clothe themselves with new thinking and behavior.
  • This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
  • Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
  • Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
  • But ye have not so learned Christ;
  • If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
  • That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
  • And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
  • And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
  • Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.


Ephesians, Catholic chapter four, Protestant verses seventeen to twenty five,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James,
underlines my own

207 posted on 01/09/2019 6:50:52 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: imardmd1

Very well stated and of critical importance to the understanding of justification by faith ALONE!


208 posted on 01/09/2019 6:57:54 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy he saved us.)
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To: af_vet_1981; Mark17
False; it is not random; it is purposeful and determinate.

The AI program that controls the posts in the account that bears your screen name is generating Scripture randomly - never accurately, and usually out of context.

The only conclusion that seems logical is that these passages are being generated randomly and perhaps this software should be adjusted.

209 posted on 01/09/2019 7:09:06 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
The AI program that controls the posts in the account that bears your screen name is generating Scripture randomly - never accurately, and usually out of context.

The only conclusion that seems logical is that these passages are being generated randomly and perhaps this software should be adjusted.


Since post 209 is demonstrably false, it is logical to assume other posts about theology by that poster are also wrong.
210 posted on 01/09/2019 7:38:49 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

Ha!

Is this the AI program still talking, or is a human posting again?

It just sounds so..... logical and emotionless.


211 posted on 01/09/2019 8:11:18 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Elsie
>> #metoo <<

Are you saying that you believe in baptismal regeneration?

212 posted on 01/09/2019 9:30:34 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: Salvation
Yes, thanks Salvation for posting threads where the misconceptions some have about Protestants/Evangelicals' beliefs concerning the gospel can be dispelled. We delight in being able to share the GOOD NEWS of the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. This is the Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs with the hope of eternal life. This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. (Titus 3:4-8)

213 posted on 01/09/2019 11:02:10 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy he saved us.)
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To: af_vet_1981; aMorePerfectUnion
False; it is not random; it is purposeful and determinate.

That’s just your opinion bro. Obviously, I do not agree with it. To me, most (not all) the verses you post, as AMPU says, are usually misunderstood, misinterpreted, and taken out of context.

There are two aspects to this,
1. one where the spiritual and natural man are part of a person with a circumcised heart and struggles daily to overcome temptation and sin.
2. The other is where only the natural man is found.

I disagree with your theology, AGAIN bro. There is only ONE aspect to it. The spiritual man, is saved, and born again, and has assurance of salvation. The natural man is unsaved, not born again, on his way to Hell, and has NO assurance of salvation. Until a man becomes born again, and then becomes a spiritual man, he is automatically an unsaved, unspiritual, non understanding, natural man. The two are not related, and neither are the verses you generated.
Now that you know, that I think your theology is flawed, it should motivate you to figure out why, like maybe your theology, really IS flawed. Remember, I have assurance of salvation. 👍 I don’t know if you do, or not, but it really isn’t my problem. It’s yours. 🤣

214 posted on 01/09/2019 11:53:09 PM PST by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD.... And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
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To: Songcraft
I love to see you trashing around in inches deep water while hollering, "I'm DROWNING!!!"
215 posted on 01/10/2019 3:46:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Songcraft

I love how you have a non-gender specific screen name and then make snide inferences about mine.

Next thing ya know; I’ll be having a temple tantrum and completely unwilling to make a deal.


216 posted on 01/10/2019 3:50:01 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Songcraft
(By the way, you still haven't answered my repeated questions ….

I'll let any amused lurkers look back in the thread and check for any questions put to you that you've not answered.

217 posted on 01/10/2019 3:51:36 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: imardmd1
This part: I say "No."
218 posted on 01/10/2019 3:53:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Songcraft
Elsie, I must admit, you seem to be particularly well-suited to assume that role, I'll grant you that!

Actually...

Balaam's ride.

219 posted on 01/10/2019 4:05:48 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mark17
That’s just your opinion bro. Obviously, I do not agree with it. To me, most (not all) the verses you post, as AMPU says, are usually misunderstood, misinterpreted, and taken out of context.

Except that is not what was written in posts calling it "random verse generation." Since the one posting knows the facts about the generation, and the reader does not, the facts are that the posting of the scripture has definite plan and purpose, and is not chosen at random. That the reader can be blind to this fact, willfully or inadvertently suggests other causes for that poor judgment, which would be then be an opinion.

When people claim to be spiritual, and are wrong about physical things, it discounts their testimony about spiritual things.
220 posted on 01/10/2019 5:20:25 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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