Posted on 06/23/2018 7:48:28 AM PDT by Salvation
Bowing at the mention of Jesus’ name is an old practice that has since fallen into wide disuse
Msgr. Charles Pope June 10, 2018
Question: I was taught to nod my head when the name of Jesus was spoken. I see some priests and congregants do it, but not most. What is the current practice? — Diane Garrett, via email
Answer: Liturgically it is not required. This is a pious custom that, while less common today, is still observed by many. This is not only in the liturgy, but at any time the name of Jesus is uttered, and also, quite commonly, the name of Mary. In the traditional Latin Mass, where clergy wear birettas (a kind of square hat with a pom), there is the additional tipping (lifting off) of the biretta at the names of Jesus, Mary and the saint of the day. This external and very visible action also helped the faithful remember to bow their heads.
This laudable custom has sadly declined. Some clergy and others still observe it, and, while it is not required, it is worthy of being encouraged. Other customs too should not be forgotten, such as making the Sign of the Cross when passing a Catholic Church, praying the Angelus at noon and 6 p.m., and so forth. The generations raised in the 1960s and ’70s largely abandoned such practices. However, many of their children have rediscovered some of these lost customs like a precious heirloom brought down from the attic. Thus, while being careful not to harshly judge those who do not follow this non-required custom, many can joyfully take it up again and encourage others to do so.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters into that within the veil;
20 Where the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.7:26 For such a high priest was befitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law makes men high priests who have weakness; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makes the Son, who is consecrated forevermore.9:11 But Christ being come a high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?24 For Christ has not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the age has he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.10:11 And every priest stands daily ministering and offering frequently the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever ...19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having a high priest over the house of God;29 Of how much worse punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done insult unto the Spirit of grace?
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks better things than that of Abel.
13:11 For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned outside the camp.
12 Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered outside the gate.
If you follow the texts from Hebrews, you learn where the blood was sprinkled, for the sins of the people. The Mercy seat is now in Heaven and that is where the blood was sprinkled, by The High Priest forever, having offered up the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the people, who by faith in HIM in His soter role, has redeemed the faithful.
It is certain you can see the huge difference. I doubt you will obtain anything from the rejection of the TRUTH of it.
Some imagination you have there.
Catholicism appoints to the statuary the idolatry because those petitioning the one for whom the images are made are seeking supernatural things which ONLY from the TRUE God are come/derived.
Yes, the “supernatural things” are from the One, True God.
Come in from the dark fringe to His full light.
Well, no I don't. Do you? Please post the Scripture verses of what He asked when His disciples showed up with the coin from the fish's mouth.
This could prove interesting.
Catholicism instructs Catholics to petition the person of the statuary, asking for supernatural things of 'her' not of God. But you probably knew that and just want to be contentious.
Anything that comes from our petitions is from God.
Catholicism teaches idolatry, to petition not God but dead persons for whom statuary has been manufactured. Try learning from the story of the brass snake ibn the wilderness and the subsequent idolatry that arose.
Have you not read, ‘Satan comes with all signs and lying wonders’ ...?
Do you not believe the Scriptures?
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. John 11:26
Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the Lord God, my God, is with you.
HMMMmmm…
When (how) did it get there?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant#Possible_locations
You do not need to see or know how Jesus got His Blood gathered together and got it to Heaven. One can, by faith, accept that the Scriptures are true, and whatever He did to obtain that still Living, Incorruptible, uncoagulated, fluid Blood, He did it by miraculous means, that he might have it as and when necessary to fulfill His role as the One Mediator between mankind and The God at the last and final perfected renewal of the New Covenant at the Mercy Seat in Haven before The God His Father.
On the other hand, what you do need to see is that to have sins of the entire people of God forgiven, simply cutting an animal's throat and bleeding it out was not sufficient. God commanded that the blood be brought past the veil and applied to the mercy seat. The high priest(s) on earth had to execute the pattern that God required for sins to be forgiven, and that was taking blood into the temporal Holy of Holies, and applied to the Mercy Seat there. So to completely fill the Law, the command of how to process atonement with blood also had to apply to Jesus as High Priest representing all of mankind, else His appeal would be at least ignored, if not escalate The God's wrath for an inept execution of the methods set forth in the Law. Consider the following:
Hebrews 10:11-13 (AV):
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices,
which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Does the Bible have anything to say what the sacrifice was, when the sacrifice was offered to The God, where Jesus was at the moment the sacrifice was offered, how the sacrificial process was performed, and why it needed to be made? I think it does, but to nail the answers down one needs to search the whole Bible for the bits and pieces that when assembled tell the story.
It is a cheap shot for you to write what you did about explaining the Hebrews passage in view for Post #696. The writer of Hebrews sets the process up to be viewed in parallel to the preparation, procedure, and outcome of that which Jesus followed commensurate with the OT imagery, so that the principal and first target audience, the Jews, could appreciate exactly what Jesus suffered for them as the Lamb of God.
Another asinine comment is the one bringing in the irrelevant Mormon issue. From Genesis Chapter 2, it is basic that the sentence for committing a sin is death of the sinner, by taking from him/her the fluid sustaining physical life--"bios" in the Greek--as God did in providing the skins to cover Adam's and Eve's sinfulness, a substitutionary victim issue.
It is a great and saddening shame that you do not pick up on the minute details of all that was playing out, leading up to the once-for-all expiation of sin through the Blood brought and displayed as a permanent, living, incorruptible Exhibit A to the Judge of All.
The codified instructions given in the Mosaic guidebook show that it is a blood sacrifice that is required for the payment of the sin debt, if not that of the sinner, then the blood (and consequent death) of a prescribed substitute.
For himself, Aaron, or any succeeding high priest taking up the role, had to successfully offer blood for his own sins before his ministry on behalf of the people could be initiated:
Leviticus 16:6,11,14 (AV):
6 And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself,
and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
11 And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself,
and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house,
and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
14 And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger
upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.
Jesus did have the responsibility of making atonement for the people, but he did not have to make atonement for Himself, simply because as risen and ascended as The Eternal High Priest and as God, He was sinless:
Hebrews 7:26,27 (AV):
26 For such an high priest becamewas fit for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled,
separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not dailyor yearly, as fo Yom Kippur, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins,
and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
However, the second part of the high priest's yearly task, as laid down first for Aaron was as follows:
Leviticus 16:15 (AV):
15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people,
and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock,
and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
This is what MUST be done to excuse the sins of all the people coming under the covenant, all at once, and once a year--for the Aaronic priesthood; but only once one time for ever, for all the people who would come undr the New Covenant's provisions, which is every human who was ever born in sin, as well as Adam and Eve themselves.
But this was all covered in the Scripture passages previous to the one I chose to illustrate Post #596. Let me go bck and draw the pertinent verses into the discussion:
Hebrews 9:7-14 (AV):
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood,
which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest,
while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices,
that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances,
imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and
more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once
into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean,
sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself
without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
==========
I am quite non-plussed that, prompted to read the context from both the decalogue and the exposition of its "mystery" to the believing first-century Diaspora, you can find any basis to deny the fact that Jesus did bear His Blood into the Holy of Holies of the Heavenly Tabernacle and placed it on the True Mercy Seat there for the expiation of the sins of mankind.
Once again; I am simply denying the 'fact' of the thing that you have taken so many words to try to convince me of.
Is Jesus' blood effective in taking care of my sin?
A resounding YES! is heard from Elsie's keyboard.
Are knowing and fully understanding the DETAILS of just HOW this occurs, a thing that will keep me up at night?
Uh; not really.
Shadows and types and images found in the OT are fine; but I don't get too excited over the process in extracting some of them.
The Mercy Seat fabricated under Moses' supervision was only a copy, a simulacrum, an earthly representation of that Permanent one in Heaven which pre-existed the one on earth. Wherever the earthly one is now is of no consequence, for that old system is quite fully wiped out and replaced by the Second, New Will/Testament/Covenant of God, with the True Mercy Seat firmly located in Heaven, as it always was, is, and always will be.
Hebrews 8:4-6 (AV):
4 For if heJesus were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God
when he was about to make the tabernacle: for,
See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.6 But now hath heJesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is
The True Mercy Seat of Heaven didn't "get there." It was always there, of which the earthly one was only a temporary copy of, for God's purposes with mankind in this realm.
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The carrying out of it was not shadows and types and images in Heaven. The inspired words of the writer of Hebrews shows that it was real, and the foundation of the reconciliation, salvation, and justification doctrine and practicality experienced by those who have completed the transaction that the Father has offered to those whose faith is permanently lodged in the proactive faithfulness of Jesus Messiah; the transaction being that the faithful human releases all his/her sins to Jesus in exchange for His righteousness being imputed to that party of the agreement.
To hide one's head in the sand is to demean in one's mind the import of what The Christ has done for us all, IMHO. To fail to appreciate the pre-Cross imagery and types and shadows on earth, documented in God's Word, and now demystified for the Bible student is to ignore the eternal meaning of the record. To impugn the Christ-follower's research in and telling of these mysterious truths now revealed is not a noble act that glorifies The Father and His Son our Lord.
I doubt that The God views it as a joking matter, Els.
Selah!
I've made patterns of many projects I've built over the years; but the final product was the only result. The 'pattern' only existed in my mind first, and on paper later. Then the object got built.
Els, I don't see that this has any bearing on the matter at hand. God seems to have given Moses a look into Heaven, as He has done with other prophets, especially Daniel and John the Theologian. God showed them things which are visible, at least with the mind's eye, but He gave Moses the blueprints; and like a good Jewish lawyer, gave Himself and Moses the copyright by virtue of issuing the second of the Ten Commandments.
1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Sure, but these things are abstract, hence not visible, thus cannot be seen, although they may be experienced. For openers, you could start with God's attributes, which gives rise to the sequel:
1 Corinthians 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
I assume that 'prepared' means created beforehand. Would that be close?
Yeah, regarding abstract qualities and actions that, when employed, might produce material results.
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However, its about time to draw this debate to a close. I want to go on record that as a Christian, I love you as a brother, and have the sense that taking this any farther might not be profitable to that great adventure we share.
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