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To: Elsie
I guess we'd better cross the book of Hebrews off the list of doctrinal epistles, because that is what the imagery of the sacrifices under the law was all about -- for the Hebrews to see literally the performance of what The Mighty God, Creator and Judge demanded.

You do not need to see or know how Jesus got His Blood gathered together and got it to Heaven. One can, by faith, accept that the Scriptures are true, and whatever He did to obtain that still Living, Incorruptible, uncoagulated, fluid Blood, He did it by miraculous means, that he might have it as and when necessary to fulfill His role as the One Mediator between mankind and The God at the last and final perfected renewal of the New Covenant at the Mercy Seat in Haven before The God His Father.

On the other hand, what you do need to see is that to have sins of the entire people of God forgiven, simply cutting an animal's throat and bleeding it out was not sufficient. God commanded that the blood be brought past the veil and applied to the mercy seat. The high priest(s) on earth had to execute the pattern that God required for sins to be forgiven, and that was taking blood into the temporal Holy of Holies, and applied to the Mercy Seat there. So to completely fill the Law, the command of how to process atonement with blood also had to apply to Jesus as High Priest representing all of mankind, else His appeal would be at least ignored, if not escalate The God's wrath for an inept execution of the methods set forth in the Law. Consider the following:

Hebrews 10:11-13 (AV):
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices,
which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Does the Bible have anything to say what the sacrifice was, when the sacrifice was offered to The God, where Jesus was at the moment the sacrifice was offered, how the sacrificial process was performed, and why it needed to be made? I think it does, but to nail the answers down one needs to search the whole Bible for the bits and pieces that when assembled tell the story.

It is a cheap shot for you to write what you did about explaining the Hebrews passage in view for Post #696. The writer of Hebrews sets the process up to be viewed in parallel to the preparation, procedure, and outcome of that which Jesus followed commensurate with the OT imagery, so that the principal and first target audience, the Jews, could appreciate exactly what Jesus suffered for them as the Lamb of God.

Another asinine comment is the one bringing in the irrelevant Mormon issue. From Genesis Chapter 2, it is basic that the sentence for committing a sin is death of the sinner, by taking from him/her the fluid sustaining physical life--"bios" in the Greek--as God did in providing the skins to cover Adam's and Eve's sinfulness, a substitutionary victim issue.

It is a great and saddening shame that you do not pick up on the minute details of all that was playing out, leading up to the once-for-all expiation of sin through the Blood brought and displayed as a permanent, living, incorruptible Exhibit A to the Judge of All.

The codified instructions given in the Mosaic guidebook show that it is a blood sacrifice that is required for the payment of the sin debt, if not that of the sinner, then the blood (and consequent death) of a prescribed substitute.

For himself, Aaron, or any succeeding high priest taking up the role, had to successfully offer blood for his own sins before his ministry on behalf of the people could be initiated:

Leviticus 16:6,11,14 (AV):
6 And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself,
and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
11 And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself,
and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house,
and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
14 And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger
upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.

Jesus did have the responsibility of making atonement for the people, but he did not have to make atonement for Himself, simply because as risen and ascended as The Eternal High Priest and as God, He was sinless:

Hebrews 7:26,27 (AV):
26 For such an high priest becamewas fit for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled,
separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not dailyor yearly, as fo Yom Kippur, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins,
and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

However, the second part of the high priest's yearly task, as laid down first for Aaron was as follows:

Leviticus 16:15 (AV):
15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people,
and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock,
and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

This is what MUST be done to excuse the sins of all the people coming under the covenant, all at once, and once a year--for the Aaronic priesthood; but only once one time for ever, for all the people who would come undr the New Covenant's provisions, which is every human who was ever born in sin, as well as Adam and Eve themselves.

But this was all covered in the Scripture passages previous to the one I chose to illustrate Post #596. Let me go bck and draw the pertinent verses into the discussion:

Hebrews 9:7-14 (AV):
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood,
which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest,
while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices,
that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances,
imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and
more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once
into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us
.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean,
sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself
without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

==========

I am quite non-plussed that, prompted to read the context from both the decalogue and the exposition of its "mystery" to the believing first-century Diaspora, you can find any basis to deny the fact that Jesus did bear His Blood into the Holy of Holies of the Heavenly Tabernacle and placed it on the True Mercy Seat there for the expiation of the sins of mankind.

712 posted on 07/05/2018 5:09:04 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrFiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1
...you can find any basis to deny the fact …

Once again; I am simply denying the 'fact' of the thing that you have taken so many words to try to convince me of.


Is Jesus' blood effective in taking care of my sin?

A resounding YES! is heard from Elsie's keyboard.

Are knowing and fully understanding the DETAILS of just HOW this occurs, a thing that will keep me up at night?

Uh; not really.


Shadows and types and images found in the OT are fine; but I don't get too excited over the process in extracting some of them.

713 posted on 07/05/2018 5:20:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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