Peter as rock

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-30-18 | Msgr, Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Peter as rock

Question: A Protestant told me recently that Peter can’t be the rock since Jesus is described as the rock and cornerstone of the Church, and he showed me a couple of places where Jesus is described as the cornerstone and even a stumbling block to unbelievers. Is there an answer for this? — Allen Desome, Washington, D.C.

Answer: Of course Jesus, Peter and others who are called “rock” or stone are not literally chunks of stone. What we have in such attestations is the application of a metaphor. Scripture, like any lengthy document uses many metaphors, similes and analogies. Such things can be true in different ways.

In the Scriptures we see that Peter is called “the rock” by Jesus (Mt 16:18). Jesus is also called a stone (1 Pt 2:6). And the apostles and prophets are called foundation stones and Jesus as the cornerstone (Eph 2:20). The Book of Revelation describes the Twelve Apostles as foundation stones (Rev 21:14). So there are a number of “stone” references that need not be mutually exclusive.

Jesus is the deepest and surest foundation of the Church. That the Apostles, prophets and, in a special way, Peter are rock is understood in a subordinate sense. That is, they are rock and foundation for the Church on account of the grace and support of Jesus.

The Protestant to whom you refer fails to see the context and metaphorical sense of the texts and terms. He also fails to see that Jesus, while not abandoning his Church as her true head and foundation, does assign Peter a unique status to be the visible and identifiable rock on which the Church will be built. Peter (and his successors) is the rock, but he does not stand in midair. He is supported by Christ and his grace and affirmed by him as the visible rock and head of the Church. The Protestant approach is to see the Church as invisible. But Jesus did not establish an invisible Church. It is visible and with a visible rock and head: Peter and his successors.

[MHGinTN]

So asserts a Catholic Priest who stands to lose some measure of his institutional empowerment if he stops conflating catholic church with The Body of ALL BELIEVERS in The Christ Whom God sent for our salvation.

You can spout all the dogma you want, but purposed conflating to empower your chosen institutional religion is deception.

[imardmd1]

I have no wish to argue.

Neither do I. My questions, in my words, were addressed to your words, as follows:

He explained that no way would the Lord have characterized a man, Peter, as a feminine, ‘petra.’ (Post #111)

I'm interested in your explanation.

[ealgeone]

I presume that some do not know the Greek was the translation from the Aramaic the language that Jesus and Simon spoke.

You presume to know this as fact. However, this is not the case.

What is agreed upon by all is the NT was written in Greek.

[imardmd1]

The way I see it, Peter, preaching the Gospel in the Spirit, used the keys once, and opened the gates of Heaven for all for the duration of the Age of Grace.

[MHGinTN]

Scriptures reveals Peter opening the gates of Heaven to the Jews, then to the Gentiles.

[Luircin]

Agree, but Paul’s words cannot be used to negate Peter’s, either. They must be harmonized.

***

Very true! It’s not either-or, it’s both-and.

[imardmd1]

OK

[Mad Dawg]

Thanks for the peaceable reply.

Jesus is Lord, a loving lord, a saving lord.
By his grace I believe that. In his grace I abide (I LOVE that word in John’s gospel.)

It’s funny. I see that it looks like it’s all a tangle of rules. Somebody asked me what a Lay Dominican is and when I tried to answer said, “It sounds complicated!”

But it doesn’t FEEL complicated. I study a little. I pray and do penance a little. I talk about the saving Love when I get a chance ...

[Luircin]

I do prefer my replies to be peaceable; it’s just that on the religion board it’s not easy to get beyond the rough and tumble.

From what you’ve replied, we seem to be on the same page for about 90%, at least 90% of what I’ve read.

Only real difference that we have in the last post is ‘doing penance,’ though that’s lies in the question of the reason.

On the one hand, Jesus forgives with no demands as prerequisites. Jesus gives plenty of instruction, but as our Lord says, his yoke his easy and his burden is light. Just that salvation doesn’t come from our works.

On the other hand, works are good to do, and self-discipline is a good thing to foster. If doing penance when confessing helps you with self-discipline, well, that’s not a bad thing.

[MayflowerMadam]

I’m shaking my head in disbelief a lot when on FR. Just about all of us agree that the Constitution should be adhered to, as written. It’s not a “living document”. It shouldn’t be added to or diminished in any way.

A minute later there’s a thread where some are playing fast and loose with Scripture. Making up “stuff” and people. Ignoring other things. It seems the Bible should be given at least as much respect as the Constitution.

[MayflowerMadam]

“...and to have married a similar man of God.”

Well, my fiance’ was in the Pastoral program at Seminary but did not go into the ministry. And he wasn’t “a man of God”, as it turned out.

[Elsie]

Those derived from the W&H/Nestle/UBS-derived translational school.

By what authority can you claim these are BAD sources?

Surely they count for more than word of mouth from 3 kids that claim to have seen an apparition!

[Elsie]

Those derived from the W&H/Nestle/UBS-derived translational school.

And just which ones ARE these?

If you are going to claim that the dog ate your homework; at LEAST point out which dog it was!

[af_vet_1981]

Eastern Orthodox, and they have a stronger claim than Rome ever did. And like the Bible but UNLIKE Rome, they teach salvation by grace.

Why are you not Eastern Orthodox?

From How Are We Saved?
by Fr. Theodore Stylianopoulos

Let us sum up the main points. The work of salvation belongs entirely to God. It is God through Christ and the Holy Spirit, who has the divine power to rescue us from the forces of sickness, evil, sin, death, and the devil. It is God through Christ and the Holy Spirit who alone provides justification, forgiveness, and new life to sinners who come to Him with faith. And God provides salvation as a most amazing and unceasing gift to all sincere seekers.

From our side, the question is about receiving and using the gift of salvation. The gift is offered, but if we do not receive it, we don’t have it, and certainly cannot use it. God offers the gift. We can choose to accept it or reject it. As Orthodox Christians we do not believe in predestination. Jesus said: “Whoever wants to come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me” (Mark 8:34). The gift and the challenge to follow Jesus through a life of faith and works coincide.

The reception of the gift of salvation is not a one-time event but a life-time process. St. Paul employs the verb “to save” (sozesthai) in the past tense (“we have been saved,” Rom 8:24; Eph 2:5); in the present tense (“we are being saved,” 1 Cor 1:18; 15:2), and in the future tense (“we will be saved,” Rom 5:10). He can think even of justification as a future event and part of the final judgment (Rom 2:13, 16). For Paul, Christians are involved in a lifetime covenant with God in which we work, planting and watering, but it is “only God who gives the growth” (1 Cor 3:7). We are “co-workers with God” (synergoi Theou, 1 Cor 3:9; 1 Thess 3:2). (Not “co-workers under God” as some translations would have it). The mystery of salvation is a duet, not a solo. It is a life-time engagement with God. It has ups and downs, twists and turns, with opportunities to grow in the love of God, knowing that we can turn to Him again and again and receive forgiveness and a new birth. When we come to Christ as sinners, we have no works to offer to Him, but only faith and repentance. But once we come to Him and receive the gift of salvation, we enter into a sacred covenant to honor Him with good works. We read in Ephesians: “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God . . . [We are] created in Christ Jesus for good works” (Eph 2:8-10).

The teaching of the New Testament is that God’s grace, our free will, and our faith and good works, are intimately connected. The Holy Spirit energizes in us both faith and good works as we thirst for and seek God’s grace. Neither faith nor good works can be presented as merit before God, but only as return gifts in humility, love, and thanksgiving. Let us not forget as well the sober words of James: “Faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead . . . Faith is completed by works . . . A person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:17, 22, 24). By free will, faith, and earnest labors, we work together with the grace of God in the awesome gift and mystery of salvation. As St. Paul puts it: “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work His good pleasure” (Phil 2:12-13). To God Almighty, together with the Son and the Holy Spirit, be praise and worship forever. Amen.

[af_vet_1981]

You assert that the ekklesia HAS to be visible and HAS to be an organization ...

I did not introduce the term organization, and certainly not as a polemic. I also did not condemn the church in Rome. Scripture praises the church in Rome. I have never heard of an assembly that is invisible. Neither have I ever heard of a church without administration.

[af_vet_1981]

The Messiah gave the apostle Peter, and/or his brethren apostles the
1. power to bind and loose on earth and in heaven
2. keys to the kingdom of heaven (only given to the Apostle Peter)
3. power to forgive and retain sins

It is written in the scriptures that the apostles, led by the apostle Peter, chose another apostle and that bishops were appointed to carry on the ministry.

A re-constructionist, re-formative, or re-creationist movement either by departing from this faith or rising by the will of an historical man or woman fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, or twenty centuries later does not have this apostolic authority.

[ealgeone]

Did God not call Paul to ministry?

Can He not still call men to serve today?

[Elsie]

Scripture praises the church in Rome.

Not so much it's children; found in Revelation chapters 2-3.

[Elsie]

A re-constructionist, re-formative, or re-creationist movement either by departing from this faith or rising by the will of an historical man or woman fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, or twenty centuries later does not have this apostolic authority.

---

 

 26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.

Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp 

 

Translation:  "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."

[Fantasywriter]

‘LOL! doesn’t wish to argue!’

The party had misrepresented my position before any actual discussion took place. Proceeding in such a case is the equivalent of flushing time down the commode.

The tone of your comment, btw, is off-putting. It’s a poor commentary on your denomination.