Posted on 01/07/2018 1:17:40 PM PST by tiredofallofit
But that chain of authority is often not so clear in the church world, especially amongst non-denominational evangelicals. If a man or woman steps up behind a pulpit and speaks to us authoritatively on matters of theology, why do we automatically accept this authority? Is it because we like what we hear? Or do we validate the authority because the pastor’s interpretation of the Bible jives with our own understanding? But who are we to even make that judgement? Why is our interpretation of the Bible any better than the person sitting next to us on the pew? And if we disagree with an aspect of the pastor’s views, do we have a right to question him? Or do we have to accept what he says because we have already consented to his authority?
(Excerpt) Read more at runningawayfrommychurch.com ...
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Proving once again it is usually the Roman Catholic who resorts to profanity and/or the personal attack when the argument goes against them.
Which impresses no one but some respecters of persons.
Titles and accolades by people to people, mean nothing in God's economy.
You make the point about understanding the context of a passage.
The point of the passage is we come to Christ in faith...not a literal eating/drinking of His flesh and blood.
Else He would not have said at the Passover meals...do this in remembrance of Me.
If we are to believe the Roman Catholic position then we have to believe Jesus lied to everyone He talked to prior to this encounter.
It would nullify completely John 3:14-18.
Paul also lied to everyone when he wrote about coming to Christ in faith.
Hey! We've got to brag about something!!
- Catholic Dude (Hail Mary!)
Show us who among us follows human leaders.
Christians cannot be “perfectly united in mind and thought” when they have different beliefs on, say, the necessity of water baptism, while others believe “This is my Body” means “This is a cookie”
And do all Catholics follow the current pope?
The differences between Rome and the EO are greater than between many, if not most, Protestant denominations from each other, yet they are considered in full communion with Rome. Why?
Why is it OK for Rome and the EO to disagree on so many points and the EO to be considered in full communion, and when Catholics accuse Prots of doing so, they condemn it as an indicator of the weakness of Protestantism?
THAT is a double standard if ever we saw one.
What? Are you going Calvinist on us?
I thought Catholics believed in free will.
Saint Anselm says, ‘that as it is impossible for one who is not devout to Mary, and consequently not protected by her, to be saved, so is it impossible for one who recommends himself to her, and consequently is beloved by her, to be lost.’ Saint Antoninus repeats the same thing, and almost in the same words: ‘As it is impossible for those from whom Mary turns her eyes of mercy, to be saved, so also are those towards whom she turns these eyes, and for whom she prays, necessarily saved and glorified.’ Consequently the clients of Mary will necessarily be saved. (p184)
The Glories of Mary, translated from the Italian of St Alphonsus De; Liguori, Founder of the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer, by A Father of the Same Congregation LONDON: Printed for the Redemptorist Fathers, St Mary’s, Clapham, Surrey; to be had of J.J. Wallwork, 42, Great Marlborough Street, Regent Street, and of all Booksellers. MDCCCLII p184-185.
Don't eat the blood, the life is in the blood
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
In Damascus, Paul received the Holy Ghost after Ananias laid hands on him. He preached many days there before going to Jerusalem, and preached there as well.
At Antioch the Holy Ghost told them that Paul and Barnabas should be sent forth. That’s when.......
**Paul and Barnabus received the laying on of hands from the Church in Antioch and were sent forth**
Acts 4:11-12 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Oh, so you're Eastern Orthodox then?
Ok. Show us where Jesus Christ, Peter, or the rest of the apostles endorsed venerating, and praying to, graven images. Show me where they even slightly encouraged having such trash.
I am not too concerned about the current pope, just give it a few hundred years and it will all get sorted out.
60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?”
61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble?
62“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?
63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
64“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
65And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?”
68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” John 6:60-69 NASB
The aftermath of this encounter with the Jews comes back to faith in Him...not eating/drinking His flesh and blood as He never told anyone else this is how eternal life is appropriated.
Peter and the remaining disciples understood it was about belief...not eating/drinking flesh and blood.
The Greek for have believed is a Perfect Indicative Active verb.
The perfect indicates an action that was brought to completion and whose effects are felt in the present from the vantage point of the speaker/writer.
Peter and the disciples, at some point, had believed (had faith) in Christ before this encounter.
Jesus, in His encounter with Nicodemus and the woman at the well, never mentioned eating/drinking His flesh/blood....it was always about faith/belief.
He was continuing this line until the Jews refused to understand.
Rome would have us believe that everywhere in the New Testament where the texts speak of coming to Him in faith they were wrong and this one passage in John is correct???
Paul must have dropped the ball in Romans as he did not mention this.
This was what He was trying to get them to understand before they grumbled about His statements about being the bread of life.
He called Himself the Bread of Life here as He called Himself living water to the woman at the well.
13Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; 14but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”John 4:13-14 NASB
If Rome wants to stay consistent then they have to say Jesus is now saying it's water that will give eternal life.
Christians understand both passages are about having faith in Him.
Amen!
Very insightful.
Like rudderless ships there is little or no unity which has spawned untold thousands of misguided faith communities ranging from the Unitarians to Jim Jones.
Jesus was/is in the reforming business..................
They didn't have the RCC to reform at that time. I say Martin Luther was God sent because evil forces were trying to kill him but failed.
I don't know why you disagree with me. I don't disagree with you on what you said. They are not in contradiction with each other. They are different timelines.
**And how about the descent of the Holy Spirit at Penntacost? Who was it who spoke to the people? Is that in your Bible or is it missing?**
Peter. The same man who, following the pattern of the Lord, never used the phrase God the Son, or God the Holy Ghost; who never endorsed the use graven images, never instructed prayer to anyone in heaven other than God.
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