Posted on 08/02/2017 2:07:44 PM PDT by detective
The Venezuelan Episcopal Conference (CEV) has publicly invoked the intercession of the Virgin Mary to free the nation “from the claws of communism,” in a clear reference to the regime of President Nicolás Maduro.
“Blessed Virgin, Mother of Coromoto, heavenly Patron of Venezuela, free our country from the claws of communism and socialism,” the CEV posted on Twitter this Sunday, complete with an image of Santa Maria and a Venezuelan flag.
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
God says that Mary is Kecharitomene. You agree with God, right?
Original question first: God says that Mary sinned. It is impossible for God to lie.
If a man says Mary never sinned, does the man lie, or do you call God the liar?
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3%3A23&version=KJV
Charitoó: to make graceful.
Ignoring the snark, notice that Stephan was declared to be “full of grace and POWER”
The Biblical Mary was filled with grace.
“Power” was erroneously given to her by Catholic tradition.
The Catholic Mary isn’t the Mary of the Bible.
I’m away from my computer that has the data in it I’ll catch up in a week or so
Hope you do better than the mother of God reference
Really
mistake Scriptural phrases
But let me get to the point. Although the same or similar words, "full" or "filled" with grace, are used for Jesus, Mary, and Stephen, it does not mean exactly the same for all three. If it did, we'd be in the position of saying that the blessedness of Jesus, Mary, and Stephen are indistinguishable, identical -- which they are not, as I'm sure you'll agree.
How can they be distinguished, then?
The Greek grammar shows how.
"Kecharitomene" is applied to Mary, "pleres charitos" to Jesus and, "pleres pisteos" to Stephen. (I just looked that up in the Greek Interlinear NT online. Right. And "pleres pisteos" can better be translated "full of faith, or "full of belief.")
Kecharitomene is a Greek perfect, passive, participle, which could literally be translated "having been graced," since the root of the word is "charis", which means grace. Ephesians 1:6, which refers to Jesus Christ, uses the aorist, active, indicative echaritosen, meaning "he graced."
See the difference? Mary, passive voice, "She received grace"; Jesus, active voice, "He graced." This is due to the fact that Jesus is a Divine person; Mary is a human person, a creature and handmaid.
In Luke 1:28 "Kecharitomene" is nominative or titular, since it follows the greeting "Chaire" ---"Hail [name or title] --- thus the name would normally be capitalized in English translations.
The unique feature of "Kecharitomene" is that it is in the Greek perfect tense, denoting that the state of grace began in past time, by a completed action (hence "fully" accomplished), whose results continue in the present. A suitable translation to denote all these features might be "Fully-Graced One." The Greek passive voice denotes that Mary received the title from an outside source, in this case, Almighty God.
(BTW, "pleres pisteos" the term used for Stephen, also implies a gift from an outside source, that is, again, faith as a gift and initiative of God.)
All God-given changes of name or title in the Bible indicate the person's status as seen by God, the person's predestined giftedness in order to be equipped to play their role in God's plan:
It's the only place in the Bible --- the only place in all of Greek literature ---where the root word charitoo is used in exactly this way, as a form of address. It's unique. It doesn't make her equal to God (passive voice: it's been done unto her) and not identical to what's said of Stephen, because it's
This unique neologism Kecharitomene is the best Greek word that could have been invented by Divine inspiration to indicate Mary's sinlessness, her being equipped to play her role as the natural source of Christ's human nature, His flesh: human, yet untainted by sin.
It's brilliant. No other Greek formulation could have conveyed it all.
Please look at #267 — I meant to include you on this, too.
The Word of God doesn’t say Mary was sinless! It says she was a sinner!
Have mercy, please, don’t put your soul in jeopardy by denigrating the very words of God.
“Hail Mary, full of grace, blessed art thou AMONG women!”
Even the Bible says JAEL was blessed ABOVE all women, higher than Mary, but even the higher ranked Jael was not sinless!
Please do us both a favor and don’t copy and paste Keating’s long refuted blasphemy.
Mary was a sinner. She isn’t magic and has no mercy to bestow upon you.
Only Jesus.
No, ealgeone has missed nothing exposing the blasphemies. There is so much truth in his exposing mariology, the catholic mind cannot afford the truth!
Sorry I don’t need or want a c/p “lesson” from you.
I’ve spent enough time studying Catholicism to recognize your efforts to be totally in vain for anyone wishing to live the Christian life.
All it does is NOT address the real issues and just fills spaces while waiting for Purgatory. Unless all of that screed your posted just came to your mind because of your studying fine, if not please cite a source of your c/p.
No more lessons in Catholicism though thank you, I am a Christian.
The exaltation of Mary by Catholics and Catholicism is getting more and more ingrained in followers of that belief system to the point that she (Not Mary, the mother of Jesus but the polished up and imagined “Mary” of the statues and Rosaries) has become more important and venerated than Jesus.
Stephan was full of grace and POWER, Mary just filled with grace and has no more power than any other human.
“This unique neologism Kecharitomene is the best Greek word that could have been invented by Divine inspiration to indicate Mary’s sinlessness”
The verse says nothing of being sinless. It says Mary received grace from God, since she would bear Messiah.
Never good to add to God’s words.
I can tell you EXACTLY the problem here...many FRoman Catholics bitterly defend the Catholic Mary against anyone who would dare reject the many dogmas Catholicism has created concerning the Virgin Mary. Should a non-Catholic attempt to explain WHY he/she disagrees with Catholics on this or any other doctrines or dogmas, he/she is met with disdain and/or hostility for having the nerve to post on a thread about Mary at all. What makes this strange is the one who usually posts such threads is a Catholic already well aware the thread will provoke disagreement. I can't help but see deliberate instigation.
Do you think there can ever be an Open RF thread about Mary - or other Catholic-specific doctrines - where the topic can be discussed even when opposing views are bandied back and forth - and it remain respectful and NOT degrade to animosity? I think it would be exceptional if such can be achieved. Sadly, too often it is the Catholics who start the ball rolling in the wrong direction on such threads when offense is taken and personal feelings get involved. Just look at this thread. A tougher hide is needed we know on Open RF threads where personal beliefs can be challenged, it would be wonderful if we could all simply respond respectfully no matter what and not turn this forum into a slugfest or flame war. I will try hard to keep this in mind.
It’s just talking points, accusations thrown out as if they were true, hoping it will stick.
It’s very revealing, showing that the response is just a knee jerk reaction with no basis in reality. Join the crowd. You’ve been initiated into the RF by being accused of *hating* the Catholic church for daring to say something not positive about it.
Because there’s no way under the sun that your comment could ever even be construed as *hate* for the Catholic church by anyone with any mental clarity. Someone simply did not like what you said, and voila’ *hate* for Catholicism. Welcome to the RF.
FWIW, I did notice that your post didn’t even MENTION Catholicism or even allude to it. But that’s irrelevant. Just like in liberalland.
Yes, and they are all about JESUS, not and never Mary.
The only prophecy about Mary was the one about the virgin being with child and giving birth. And that's prophecy, not foreshadowing or a type.
There's NOTHING else in Scripture at all that alludes to her.
Mary and Grace
The word grace used in this passage in Luke is used in one other place in the Bible and that is Ephesians 1 where Paul tells us that with this same grace, God has blessed us (believers) in the Beloved. IOW, we all have access to that grace and it has been bestowed on us all.
http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm
Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
Ephesians 1:4-6 In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Greek word “grace”
charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace
Original Word: χαριτόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on
Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).
Word Origin: from charis
Definition: to make graceful, endow with grace
NASB Translation: favored (1), freely bestowed (1).
On the contrary, it is definitive proof of the sinful state of the person on whom it was given.
If Mary had not sinned, she COULD NOT HAVE experienced God's grace. Grace is not needed without sin.
It's only in the presence of sin where grace kicks in.
Where sin abounds, grace much more abounds.
Romans 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
I believe that would be called necromancy.
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