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1 posted on 05/31/2017 1:41:09 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Paul must not have known all that when he wrote his epistles to the “Hebrews”, warning them against apostatizing to Judaism and dooming themselves.


2 posted on 05/31/2017 1:52:35 PM PDT by odawg
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To: ealgeone
"Can a Christian lose his salvation?"

Paul's writing in Hebrews would answer by saying "yes".

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. - Hebrews 6: 4-8

3 posted on 05/31/2017 1:58:09 PM PDT by JesusIsLord
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To: ealgeone
And you, who were once alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight - if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Col 1:21-23
4 posted on 05/31/2017 1:59:48 PM PDT by pgkdan (The Silent Majority Stands With TRUMP!)
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To: ealgeone

No, because a person born into God’s family is forever a part of it.

He is a new creation in Christ, the old has gone and the new has come.

God will not disown His own child when he sins any more than any earthly parent would disown their children when they disobey.

They will in love chastise and correct them and get them back on the right path, but NEVER give up on them.


5 posted on 05/31/2017 1:59:56 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ealgeone; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; dragonblustar; Dutchboy88; ...

The problem with the thinking that you can lose your salvation is that instead of seeing God as a loving heavenly Father who WANTS to save people, He becomes a Divine scorekeeper nit picking at every little slip up that people make.

There’s no room for compassion, grace, or mercy.

It’s just legalistic law keeping, and if you make the grade, God is obligated to let you in.


11 posted on 05/31/2017 2:14:54 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ealgeone
I know you've seen this before, but the NT is filled with promises of the security of the believer.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring-not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

1 Corinthians 1:4-8I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus,that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:4-8For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritanceuntil we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Hebrews 6:17-20 So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

Jude v24"Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3156607/posts?page=313#313

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

For which the Greek, from the Byzantine, is:

2Corinthians 1:21-22 ο δε βεβαιων ημας συν υμιν εις χριστον και χρισας ημας θεος ο και σφραγισαμενος ημας και δους τον αρραβωνα του πνευματος εν ταις καρδιαις ημων

The first word in bold above is “bebaion,” the idea of confirmation, frequently used in commercial settings to confirm a bargain. Which of course makes sense of the remaining terms used here, which are also elements of a secured contract.

The second word in bold above is “sphragisamenos,” being sealed is to be marked by the signature, signet ring, or other unique proof of identity, that we belong to God, and this sealing is done by God, who is the one taking action in this verse. We do not and cannot seal ourselves. We do not, by our own powers, have access to God’s “signet ring.”

The third bolded word above is “arrabona,” and indicates what we might loosely refer to as earnest money, but in Hebrew culture conveys more the idea of a pledge of covenant, a security given as a guarantee that the deal will go through, though we only receive part payment at the beginning. See ערב for the related Hebrew stem indicating “pledge.”

16 posted on 05/31/2017 2:22:19 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ealgeone
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"

YES, but there are only two ways and they must be deliberate, purposeful and change the meaning.

17 posted on 05/31/2017 2:23:46 PM PDT by The_Republic_Of_Maine (politicians beware)
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To: ealgeone

Nope.


21 posted on 05/31/2017 2:33:23 PM PDT by SkyDancer (You know they invented wheelbarrows to teach FAA inspectors to walk on their hind legs.)
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To: ealgeone
Do what He says, without arguing or murmuring. The phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth" is referenced in many passages and is horrible to contemplate; just do His commandments; what He said here is similar to what He said to the seven churches in Revelation:

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty four, Protestant verses forty two to fifty one,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

25 posted on 05/31/2017 2:49:13 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: ealgeone

**”Can a Christian lose salvation?”**

Yes, when they turn away from God and sin.


26 posted on 05/31/2017 2:56:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ealgeone

Baptism is a pretty important part of being a Christian. Jesus commanded it (Matthew 28:19).

Rephrasing your initial question, is a person guaranteed to go to Heaven? Answer, no. Salvation, through Christ’s Passion and Resurrection, is offered as an unmerited, and un-earnable gift. The actions of Jesus can never be negated, and salvation is available for those is wish it. However, a person can refuse the gift of salvation, by living wickedly, disobediently, and unrepentant, and go to Hell.

Consider the unforgivable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. (Mark 3:28-29, Matthew 12:31-32, and Luke 12:10) This total rejection of salvation is a first class ticket to eternal damnation.

Is salvation then lost? No. It, and God’s accompanying mercy, are totally rejected. However, should the person realize the gravity of rejection, and truly seek God’s forgiveness, they are accepting the gift of salvation.


28 posted on 05/31/2017 3:06:07 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: ealgeone

1 Peter 1:23 -

“For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.”


31 posted on 05/31/2017 3:11:14 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: ealgeone

Rev 3:5 implies your name can be “blotted out” of the book of life (lose salvation). I know that it is only one scripture, but it is a very powerful one for me.


35 posted on 05/31/2017 3:24:35 PM PDT by GMThrust
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To: ealgeone

Rather than declare himself justified before the Lord and therefore certain of his eternal salvation, St. Paul is content to persevere in his mission and leave to God the judgment concerning his fate.

This doesn’t mean we Catholics are not confident that God keeps his promises. It means simply that we must exercise caution. As our tract on salvation states, “Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.”

1 John 5:13: I write these things to you so that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God.

Earlier in the letter, the author of 1 John describes essential attributes one must have in order to be a true believer in the son of God. In 3:10 he says, “No one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.” In 5:3 he says, “For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.” If we believe in the son of God we will keep his commandments, but if we do not keep the commandments, then we do not believe in him and can’t know that we are saved.

Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.

Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an “absolute” assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: “See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).


43 posted on 05/31/2017 4:06:45 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ealgeone

The Biblical term “Christian” is actually used only 3 times in scripture. It was a word that unbelievers assigned to believers, and was meant as a mockery.

Certainly a person who wears the label of “Christian” can reject the Gospel and go to hell. Christ Himself warned of false prophets, false teachers, and false Christ’s that would even come in His name.

So, yes, a person identifying with Christ can go to hell.

The definition in this article is the modern use of the term “Christian,” but the definition is problematic.

The Lord taught the Gospel of the kingdom using parables. And the foundational parable was the parable of the sower. Christ described four types of people / responses to the Gospel. Christ is the sower, the seed is the word of God, and the field represents people who hear the message.

Matthew 13:3-9
Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Notice that He describes only one of the four as complete unbelief and rejection of the message. These are the ones who do not understand or receive the message. These are lost.

But there are two cases where there is something that initially happens that is positive. They do receive the Gospel. But some fall away due to trials and persecutions. Some fall away because of riches and cares of this world.

Only one type of ground was fruitful. And only that one type of ground bears fruit unto eternal life.

From a human perspective there are ones like Judas who have all of the appearances of being a Christian. And yet they turn away. These do not go to Heaven. These go to hell.

From an eternal perspective, it is impossible for any of the elect of God to fall away, perish, or go to hell. The elect are chosen by God before the foundation of the world. They are chosen to hear, believe, bear fruit, do good works, persevere through trials and temptations, continue in the faith until the end. Only those who have these marks of a believer will enter Heaven.

Do not let anyone deceive you, the unrighteous will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Continuing in the Christian faith is not optional for a Christian. It is required. Continuing in sin is not an option. It is a repudiation of faith.

To be clear: “Christian” must never be defined merely as someone who as at some time or another, made some sort of decision for Christ. A Christian, in the sense of being a born-again believer is someone who has believed the Gospel, continues to believe the Gospel, and does so until the end.


52 posted on 05/31/2017 4:26:54 PM PDT by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: ealgeone

Anybody who says a true Saved by the Blood of Christ Christian can lose their salvation needs to check the words of Christ over and over.

Pentecostlas and “Church” of Christ are some of the worst culprits of this evil legalism.

What must be done to be saved?

John 3:36
John 6:29
Romans 10:9-10
Acts 16:31


67 posted on 05/31/2017 5:28:39 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Americans are modern day Amorites ripe for destruction)
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To: Lera; SkyPilot; SaveFerris

Wow!
The confusion over something as simple as Salvation in Christ is deep on FR! LOL!


72 posted on 05/31/2017 5:35:10 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Americans are modern day Amorites ripe for destruction)
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To: ealgeone

No. If you define “Christian” as someone who has experienced the new birth in Christ, then that person can never be unborn again.


106 posted on 05/31/2017 8:08:33 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: ealgeone
I think the Biblical doctrine of "eternal security" is probably one the MOST misunderstood of all of the tenets of the Christian faith. But, once fully understood, it brings the most joy and peace with genuine desire to live a life that pleases God, shows our gratitude and brings glory to Him.

Religions that make the endgame based upon what man is able to strive for in order to perfect himself and make him worthy of his goal - and I'm not talking about only religions that identify as "Christian" - can never truly provide any kind of confidence or assurance that the end will be achieved. The best they can offer is maybe, might, ought to, hope to - but no surety. When you have no real assurance, the purpose for your life becomes making yourself worthy enough or, if the going gets too hard, as some have done, sadly, they chuck it all and cling to agnosticism or even atheism misunderstanding who God even is. But when you KNOW you have eternal life because of the promises of God Almighty given in His word and confirmed in your heart through the indwelling Holy Spirit, then you learn how Jesus' burdens are light and His yoke is easy. Life becomes joy and death as a blessing to look forward to when God takes us home. He said He came to bring us abundant joy. He is truth.

112 posted on 05/31/2017 8:38:49 PM PDT by boatbums (Authority has a way of descending to certitude, and certitude begets hubris.)
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To: ealgeone

Salvation is not determined until one’s final personal judgement before Jesus Christ at one’s death.

And it is a sin to presume that one already knows the results of that judgement.


120 posted on 05/31/2017 9:07:12 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
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