Posted on 04/08/2016 7:34:38 AM PDT by Salvation
The Gospel proclaimed on Wednesday of this week included the familiar John 3:16. So familiar is this verse, that many hold up signs or have bumper stickers that simply say, “John 3:16.”
For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son,
so that everyone who believes in him might not perish
but might have eternal life (John 3:16).
It is indeed a beautiful verse, but I would argue that many use it inauthentically by pulling it out from its place within a longer passage. The fuller segment is John 3:16-21, which is as much a passage of warning as it is of consolation and assurance.
Here it is again, along with the remainder of that longer passage:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son,
so that everyone who believes in him might not perish
but might have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but that the world might be saved through him.
Whoever believes in him will not be condemned,
but whoever does not believe has already been condemned,
because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
And this is the verdict,
that the light came into the world,
but people preferred darkness to light,
because their works were evil.
For everyone who does wicked things hates the light
and does not come toward the light,
so that his works might not be exposed.
But whoever lives the truth comes to the light,
so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God (John 3:16-21).
This fuller context has somewhat of a different tone. It sets forth a great drama in which our lives are cast. It amounts to sober assessment of the obtuseness of many human hearts and of the urgent need for us to decide well in life.
Those who merely quote the first verse run the risk of presenting this text as a kind of a freewheeling assurance that all is well and that salvation is largely in the bag, that judgment and condemnation are not a significant factor since “God so loved the world.” And while the concept of faith is included in this first verse, without the larger context the tendency is to soft-pedal the need for repentance and for the obedience of faith. In so doing, the true drama and sober teaching of the fuller text are lost.
The longer passage fleshes the message out and has a balance that the shortened text does not. Here is what Jesus is in effect saying, expressed in more modern language:
As I live, I and my Father do not desire that any should die in their sins or be lost. I have not currently come as your judge but as your savior. I will come one day as the judge of all, but now is a time of grace and mercy extended to you.
But you need to know that you have a decision to make, a decision that will determine where you will spend eternity.
So please listen to me! Open the door to me and let me draw you to the obedience of faith and the beauty of holiness. If you do this, light will dawn for you, for I am the Light and your life will grow ever brighter.
But if you will not repent and come to a lifesaving obedience of faith, your heart will begin to despise me and the light of my glory. You will become accustomed to the darkness and begin to consider the Light (which I am) to be obnoxious, harsh, judgmental, and even cruel. Yes, you will begin to hate me, for I am the Light. You will prefer the darkness because you love your sins more.
Come to your senses and don’t let this happen. You have a decision to make: for the light or for the darkness, for me or for the prince of this world, Satan. Be sober and understand the dramatic choice before you. Your salvation depends on your choice to come to obedient faith in me or to reject me.
And know this: on the day of your judgment, the verdict will not be rendered by me so much as by you. For by then, you will either love the Light or hate it. And I will not force you to live in a light you detest. You will be free to go your own way. It will not be I who reject you. It will be you who reject me.
Be sober. Don’t let this happen. Don’t marginalize or ignore me. Don’t prefer the world and its twisted values and passing pleasures. Your sins will make you hate the light and prefer the darkness. You have a decision to make.
This message is much more complex than that contained in the popular, abbreviated text known as John 3:16. God’s mercy is offered, but the final verdict will center on whether or not we accept it. This message may be less consoling but it is true nonetheless, and only the truth can set us free.
There is a tendency by many to pull out certain verses and isolate them from their context and from the fuller message of the Gospel. The full and authentic Gospel echoes the opening call of the Lord Jesus: “Repent and believe the Good News.”
So yes, John 3:16! But please continue reading. The whole Gospel, please!
Jesus ALWAYS quoted Scripture.
Shouldn’t we?
So you can’t say “Mary mother of Jesus Christ Our Lord and God” then?
Did you read post 449?
I have been insisting for years that the correct terminology for Mary is *mother of Jesus* and SOMEHOW you STILL missed it.
I am not jumping through your hoops on your command.
And for what?
For your approval?
So you can judge me as to whether I believe good enough for you just because I used Catholic Approved Terminology?
So you can good doggie me and pat me on the head and say a smarmy, condescending *Good for you. You're getting it?*
Are you going to give me a cookie, too?
Like I need or want your approval for how I'm doing spiritually?
Guess again.
The Catholic church has no authority over me. I am not living out my faith for its approval. I don't answer to it, I answer to Jesus Christ and Him alone.
The correct terminology is *Mary, mother of Jesus* and it’s about identifying MARY ***NOT*** Jesus.
We could easily say catholicism uses Scripture to support non-Scriptural beliefs.
It does.
I'd say that "Hail Mary; Mother of GOD" is said more than a BILLION times a day on this planet.
Wadda concept!
Matthew 4:1-11
Is Jesus Christ God? Whether you think you’re being forced to jump through hoops or not, the question has been asked. Will you deny Him before man? I’m not trying to get you to use “Catholic Approved Terminology”, I’m trying to figure out what you believe about God.
If someone asked me the question I would answer willingly: YES! See it’s not about Mary, it’s about what you believe about Jesus Christ. Is Mary the mother of Jesus Christ Our Lord and God? Or is she the mother of the man Jesus? That’s where the nestorians got into trouble, they divided Christ into two persons in one body.
And ... what did you use to discern the heresy in that duplicitous belief?
The Council of Ephesus of course. The nestorians used Sacred Scripture as their foundation and built from there. I'm certain there's a wikipedia article on the Council as well as the heresy.
I understand the relationship of the Trinity and have no problem with that.
However, roman catholicism has so elevated Mary to something not even hinted at in the Bible the title assigned to her in catholicism, Mary, mother of God, takes on a different notion.
It makes out as if God needs a mother and was created.
When we see the titles of Mary assigned by catholicism, such as Mediatrix, Co-Redemtrix, Advocate, all of which are assigned to Christ or the Holy Spirit in the Word btw, along with
Queen of the apostles, Queen of Heaven, Queen of Prophets, Queen of all Saints, Refuge of Sinners, Mother of the Church, Queen of Families, Queen of Martyrs, Queen of Patriarchs,
combined with the statues/idols of Mary,
, combined with all of the prayers to Mary petitioning her to answer prayers faster than Christ or in some cases prayers He won't answer
combined with the artwork where Mary usually is depicted as a grown woman and Christ is depicted as a child, though with a man or young boy's face, being held by Mary,
combined with the marian dogmas put forth by the roman catholic church and now the push for a fifth marian dogma
it gives one the impression that Mary is indeed running Heaven and that she, for some, is the goddess and has replaced God.
Yes, the Catholic Mary is now the center of the Catholic belief system.
She is more relied on and talked about than God and most certainly Jesus.
Just look at the daily mass threads.
Many pictures of Mary depicted in a godly manner.
Floating in the air and sometimes with her feet on babies heads.
And pictures of Jesus with his heart on the outside of his body.
Pictures of rosaries on every thread with the admonition that great things will happen by “saying” the rosary over and over again.
Vain repetitions, condemned by scripture.
And an exaltation of the Mary of the Bible to a god-like apparition.
I used to hear:
Hail Mary, full of grace
Lift your veil and show your face
It is revealed, she is the face of Catholicism.
Second, you expose the need for the ... oh never mind. Here's your sign.
...
It makes out as if God needs a mother and was created.
I think you're falling into the easy trap of referring to the Father as God and Our Lord as Jesus. This disturbed the early Church greatly. God did "need" a mother, the Father "needed" a mother for His Son and the Son "needed" a mother for Himself. It is critical for our understanding of the Nature of God that we admit in some way that Mary is the mother of God, feel free to add a qualifier that Mary is not the mother of the Father or the Holy Spirit. But by all means acknowledge the Deity of Christ by saying His mother, is the Mother of God.
There are a lot of Protestants (Pentecostals for the most part I hope) who are out and out arians and nestorians because they deny that Jesus was God from His birth and only became God (this is hard for me to even type) at His Baptism... or some other point along His earthly life. Or that He didn't know He was God until some point. Then there's the oneness Pentecostals who are modalists of some kind.
I don't know the religious affiliation of most of the non-Catholic posters on the RF and to me it seems that there's no point arguing about Salvation being through Grace (it is) or works (it isn't) if we don't even agree on the Divine Person Who is Jesus Christ Our Lord. There are people who believe these ancient heresies in our midst.
Now... there are Catholics (so called) who are out and out heretics as well in that they neither understand nor care to understand Who Jesus Christ is. But they have no excuse and they can be corrected by appeals to the CCC and the ecumenical councils of the Church. Heretics who believe only in Scripture are almost impossible to argue with or convince that their interpretations are wrong because they won't listen to anything but what they believe is written in Sacred Scripture and that warm fuzzy feeling they get when they latch on to a particular interpretation.
One thing that drives me nuts is when otherwise orthodox believers treat arians and nestorians as fellow travelers as long as they will happily gang up on the Catholics. I don't see a lot of "hey, wait a minute, we're with the Catholics on the nature of God".
How about a little easy math, my favorite subject. 😀😆😃
See what I mean? That's a de facto denial of the Divinity of Our Lord. Jesus Christ is God! It may not be intentional, but I don't know that because there are all sorts of heretics running around who will happily use that kind of language.
LOL, says the catholic who welcomes the raising of the Mothe rof Jesus to a goddess status and believes he can eat GOD into his soul. The real ‘de facto’ happening in this discussion at this point is the catholic defense of blasphemies that hallmark the religion known as catholiciism.
I highly question the position that God "needed" anything to bring about the plan of salvation.
Heretics who believe only in Scripture are almost impossible to argue with or convince that their interpretations are wrong because they won't listen to anything but what they believe is written in Sacred Scripture and that warm fuzzy feeling they get when they latch on to a particular interpretation.
Yet Scripture, which you seem to put down and ascribe to being used only by heretics, is the only Spirit given message we have.
That cannot be said about the writings of the early church fathers.
Can things in scripture be taken out of context?
Yes they can. We see evidence of that on this board with a lot of roman catholic teachings as evidenced by the titles, dogmas, prayers, etc, ascribed to Mary I posted as an example.
The discussion we've had on the Eucharist is another. One cannot appeal to the ECFs as they are not in 100% agreement on the issue.
That brings us back to Scripture as the only reliable document we have that is Spirit inspired.
The problem again, though, arises from taking a verse out of context and not understanding its use within the Bible.
In the class I teach on Sundays, I emphasize that context is the key to understanding the Word. A working knowledge of the early first century is a great assist in understanding the NT.
I cannot emphasize enough though, the need to know the Kione Greek. The Greek will eliminate a vast number of misunderstandings of the text.
See what I mean? That's a de facto denial of the Divinity of Our Lord. Jesus Christ is God! It may not be intentional, but I don't know that because there are all sorts of heretics running around who will happily use that kind of language.
WE AGREE!! ROMAN CATHOLICISM IS DENYING JESUS IS LORD BY ELEVATING MARY TO HIS POSITION!!!!
The roman catholic mary is a denial of the Divinity of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Mary is invoked as Co-Redemtrix by roman catholicism where the Bible notes Jesus is our only Redeemer. Where does roman catholicism get mary as co-redemtrix in contradiction to the Word?
Mary is invoked as mediatrix by roman catholicism where the Bible teaches we have one Mediator and that is Christ. Where does catholicism get mary as mediatrix in contradiction to the Word??
Mary is invoked as advocate by roman catholicism where the Bible teaches we have the Holy Spirit and Jesus as our Advocate. Where does roman catholicism get mary as advocate in contradiction to the Word??
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