Posted on 04/08/2016 7:34:38 AM PDT by Salvation
Jesus ALWAYS quoted Scripture.
Shouldn’t we?
So you can’t say “Mary mother of Jesus Christ Our Lord and God” then?
Did you read post 449?
I have been insisting for years that the correct terminology for Mary is *mother of Jesus* and SOMEHOW you STILL missed it.
I am not jumping through your hoops on your command.
And for what?
For your approval?
So you can judge me as to whether I believe good enough for you just because I used Catholic Approved Terminology?
So you can good doggie me and pat me on the head and say a smarmy, condescending *Good for you. You're getting it?*
Are you going to give me a cookie, too?
Like I need or want your approval for how I'm doing spiritually?
Guess again.
The Catholic church has no authority over me. I am not living out my faith for its approval. I don't answer to it, I answer to Jesus Christ and Him alone.
The correct terminology is *Mary, mother of Jesus* and it’s about identifying MARY ***NOT*** Jesus.
We could easily say catholicism uses Scripture to support non-Scriptural beliefs.
It does.
I'd say that "Hail Mary; Mother of GOD" is said more than a BILLION times a day on this planet.
Wadda concept!
Matthew 4:1-11
Is Jesus Christ God? Whether you think you’re being forced to jump through hoops or not, the question has been asked. Will you deny Him before man? I’m not trying to get you to use “Catholic Approved Terminology”, I’m trying to figure out what you believe about God.
If someone asked me the question I would answer willingly: YES! See it’s not about Mary, it’s about what you believe about Jesus Christ. Is Mary the mother of Jesus Christ Our Lord and God? Or is she the mother of the man Jesus? That’s where the nestorians got into trouble, they divided Christ into two persons in one body.
And ... what did you use to discern the heresy in that duplicitous belief?
The Council of Ephesus of course. The nestorians used Sacred Scripture as their foundation and built from there. I'm certain there's a wikipedia article on the Council as well as the heresy.
I understand the relationship of the Trinity and have no problem with that.
However, roman catholicism has so elevated Mary to something not even hinted at in the Bible the title assigned to her in catholicism, Mary, mother of God, takes on a different notion.
It makes out as if God needs a mother and was created.
When we see the titles of Mary assigned by catholicism, such as Mediatrix, Co-Redemtrix, Advocate, all of which are assigned to Christ or the Holy Spirit in the Word btw, along with
Queen of the apostles, Queen of Heaven, Queen of Prophets, Queen of all Saints, Refuge of Sinners, Mother of the Church, Queen of Families, Queen of Martyrs, Queen of Patriarchs,
combined with the statues/idols of Mary,
, combined with all of the prayers to Mary petitioning her to answer prayers faster than Christ or in some cases prayers He won't answer
combined with the artwork where Mary usually is depicted as a grown woman and Christ is depicted as a child, though with a man or young boy's face, being held by Mary,
combined with the marian dogmas put forth by the roman catholic church and now the push for a fifth marian dogma
it gives one the impression that Mary is indeed running Heaven and that she, for some, is the goddess and has replaced God.
Yes, the Catholic Mary is now the center of the Catholic belief system.
She is more relied on and talked about than God and most certainly Jesus.
Just look at the daily mass threads.
Many pictures of Mary depicted in a godly manner.
Floating in the air and sometimes with her feet on babies heads.
And pictures of Jesus with his heart on the outside of his body.
Pictures of rosaries on every thread with the admonition that great things will happen by “saying” the rosary over and over again.
Vain repetitions, condemned by scripture.
And an exaltation of the Mary of the Bible to a god-like apparition.
I used to hear:
Hail Mary, full of grace
Lift your veil and show your face
It is revealed, she is the face of Catholicism.
Second, you expose the need for the ... oh never mind. Here's your sign.
...
It makes out as if God needs a mother and was created.
I think you're falling into the easy trap of referring to the Father as God and Our Lord as Jesus. This disturbed the early Church greatly. God did "need" a mother, the Father "needed" a mother for His Son and the Son "needed" a mother for Himself. It is critical for our understanding of the Nature of God that we admit in some way that Mary is the mother of God, feel free to add a qualifier that Mary is not the mother of the Father or the Holy Spirit. But by all means acknowledge the Deity of Christ by saying His mother, is the Mother of God.
There are a lot of Protestants (Pentecostals for the most part I hope) who are out and out arians and nestorians because they deny that Jesus was God from His birth and only became God (this is hard for me to even type) at His Baptism... or some other point along His earthly life. Or that He didn't know He was God until some point. Then there's the oneness Pentecostals who are modalists of some kind.
I don't know the religious affiliation of most of the non-Catholic posters on the RF and to me it seems that there's no point arguing about Salvation being through Grace (it is) or works (it isn't) if we don't even agree on the Divine Person Who is Jesus Christ Our Lord. There are people who believe these ancient heresies in our midst.
Now... there are Catholics (so called) who are out and out heretics as well in that they neither understand nor care to understand Who Jesus Christ is. But they have no excuse and they can be corrected by appeals to the CCC and the ecumenical councils of the Church. Heretics who believe only in Scripture are almost impossible to argue with or convince that their interpretations are wrong because they won't listen to anything but what they believe is written in Sacred Scripture and that warm fuzzy feeling they get when they latch on to a particular interpretation.
One thing that drives me nuts is when otherwise orthodox believers treat arians and nestorians as fellow travelers as long as they will happily gang up on the Catholics. I don't see a lot of "hey, wait a minute, we're with the Catholics on the nature of God".
How about a little easy math, my favorite subject. 😀😆😃
See what I mean? That's a de facto denial of the Divinity of Our Lord. Jesus Christ is God! It may not be intentional, but I don't know that because there are all sorts of heretics running around who will happily use that kind of language.
LOL, says the catholic who welcomes the raising of the Mothe rof Jesus to a goddess status and believes he can eat GOD into his soul. The real ‘de facto’ happening in this discussion at this point is the catholic defense of blasphemies that hallmark the religion known as catholiciism.
I highly question the position that God "needed" anything to bring about the plan of salvation.
Heretics who believe only in Scripture are almost impossible to argue with or convince that their interpretations are wrong because they won't listen to anything but what they believe is written in Sacred Scripture and that warm fuzzy feeling they get when they latch on to a particular interpretation.
Yet Scripture, which you seem to put down and ascribe to being used only by heretics, is the only Spirit given message we have.
That cannot be said about the writings of the early church fathers.
Can things in scripture be taken out of context?
Yes they can. We see evidence of that on this board with a lot of roman catholic teachings as evidenced by the titles, dogmas, prayers, etc, ascribed to Mary I posted as an example.
The discussion we've had on the Eucharist is another. One cannot appeal to the ECFs as they are not in 100% agreement on the issue.
That brings us back to Scripture as the only reliable document we have that is Spirit inspired.
The problem again, though, arises from taking a verse out of context and not understanding its use within the Bible.
In the class I teach on Sundays, I emphasize that context is the key to understanding the Word. A working knowledge of the early first century is a great assist in understanding the NT.
I cannot emphasize enough though, the need to know the Kione Greek. The Greek will eliminate a vast number of misunderstandings of the text.
See what I mean? That's a de facto denial of the Divinity of Our Lord. Jesus Christ is God! It may not be intentional, but I don't know that because there are all sorts of heretics running around who will happily use that kind of language.
WE AGREE!! ROMAN CATHOLICISM IS DENYING JESUS IS LORD BY ELEVATING MARY TO HIS POSITION!!!!
The roman catholic mary is a denial of the Divinity of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Mary is invoked as Co-Redemtrix by roman catholicism where the Bible notes Jesus is our only Redeemer. Where does roman catholicism get mary as co-redemtrix in contradiction to the Word?
Mary is invoked as mediatrix by roman catholicism where the Bible teaches we have one Mediator and that is Christ. Where does catholicism get mary as mediatrix in contradiction to the Word??
Mary is invoked as advocate by roman catholicism where the Bible teaches we have the Holy Spirit and Jesus as our Advocate. Where does roman catholicism get mary as advocate in contradiction to the Word??
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