Near-death experience Many stories of those who tell of the phenomenon often don’t reflect what we know through Scripture
Monsignor Pope Ping!
This “NDE” stuff is bogus. Just tickling ears.
Topical post of real concern for our fellow humans who buy into the “indifferentism” that is prevalent in our culture. Thank you.
Near death experiences seem to be physiology rather than theology.
Is this a caucus thread, or a bait thread?
Reading this in view of the Monsignor gives one pause to consider the fallen angel Lucifer (of light) and his many ways of deception.
I’ve had an out of body experience, it was likely a NDE, which I had at the time of an auto accident.
It was more real than surreal, but there was a moment of peace, music and fauna that wasn’t there. It was not spiritual. I saw no lights or tunnels. I was 16 at the time and it took many years to understand the event.
When reading any account of a “near-death experience,” DISCERNMENT is always necessary.
I have had a single “out of body” experience that took place when I was fully conscious and making a presentation. In it I realized “I” was standing behind and off to the right side of my body which was delivering the address. I saw the audience and picked up on their facial reactions to what I was saying. It only happened for, perhaps a couple of seconds, but it happened. This was not a NDE, but a personal experience that has left me believing that OBE is real, but accounts must be taken carefully. I have extended that logic to NDE
There is a new movie out “90 Minutes in Heaven” based on a book by Baptist minister Joe Piper.
There was little said about Heaven except the wonderful feeling the bright non-earthly light and meeting family members and friends, but not meeting Jesus. There was nothing said about judgement or real entrance into Heaven or about salvation.
It was mostly about the pain and suffering he experienced after the accident, and his longing to return to “Heaven” and rejection of (and finally accepting) the help he received on earth from family and parishioners.
My daughter stated that the brother of a friend who had several near death experiences just saw darkness.
While everyone else was screaming, I just felt this incredible calm. That was close to 30 years ago, but I still think about it.
I’ll read this article later, but this intrigues me. I’ve listened to a lot of NDEs on youtube. I find there are similar veins throughout each story. Some have completely turned their lives around, some not so much. The ones who explain hell sound Biblical.
Question is those who believe it's lights out change their minds after studying NDEs.
I would dismiss most NDEs as little more than the commonality of oxygen deprivation.
One, much rarer story of NDEs was from a man with a heart condition who repeatedly had NDEs. He spoke with a woman who had also experienced multiple NDEs. She told him something very enigmatic: “When you see Jesus, she is beautiful.”
Some time later, he actually did think he saw Jesus. Magnificent, gigantic in size, and giving off a radiant light full of love that made him want to fall down on his knees and pray. And, after the fact, he noted that Jesus was definitely a “male.”
He told the woman how magnificent Jesus was, but that he was definitely a man. She rebutted him by saying that maybe Jesus looked like you expected him to look.
Because of his NDEs, he said he saw Jesus several more times, but noticed that Jesus never said or did anything, before he firmly concluded that “Whatever that is, it is *not* Jesus.”
She also reached the same conclusion, yet noted that a lot of people think they see Jesus during a NDE. If they only see Jesus once, they are certain it was Jesus for the rest of their lives. Only if they see it again and again do they ever realize that it is no more Jesus than a painting of Jesus. For what it actually might be, there is no consensus.
I went to hell in my NDE (Yes, I’m am and was a born again Christian when it happened)
Was in hospital very sick- got peritonitis in addition to my illness and had really high fever- passed out while throwing up- went into convulsions, Nurses and docs rushed in icing me down- dousing me in water etc-
During that time something happened- I felt myself slip away- and went to hell (so now when people tell me to ‘go to hell’ I can tell them- “already been there- and they sent me back for you”)
Was immediately engulfed in suffocating sand, crawling with insects, worms, and very hot (probably felt the heat because of the high fever)- I remember trying to catch my breath but couldn’t because of the heat-
Began to weep uincontrollably - heard a pinging sound- and then a voice said “Count these sounds” I began counting, but the sounds got faster and faster and I lost ocunt- and began to weep uncontrollably again because I failed
The voice then said “Don’t worry, you no longer exist” And I was ripped out of place I was in and into what I can only describe as ‘complete nothingness’
That sounds better than hell huh? NOPE! There was still, somehow, a sense of ‘consciousness’ yet I was in a huge empty black void and oddly aware of it. The sense of ‘nothingness’ was so isolating, so lonely, so empty that it was overwhelming
Then I came to in the hospital bed
Now- do I believe in actual NDE’s where the person ‘dies’ and ‘sees’ other worlds? No- I believe something happens to the synapses during the dying process, or due to high fevers- I believe it’s a ‘coping mechanism’ (kind of like the shock that animals feel, where they don’t feel anything or really know what’s going on, when they are being killed by other animals)
What happened to me was no doubt brought on by the high fever- but what I experienced felt and seemed as real as me sitting here typing this- I can only describe it a kind of ‘lucid dreaming’ type of experience brought on by high fever and synapses going wild-
I know NDE victims like to describe floating above their bodies and ‘seeing things In the room’ that they ‘couldn’t possibly have seen in their bodily position’ BUT I feel they DID see the things they describe- perhaps in a reflection, or subconsciously at some point- I believe there is a rational explanation for it-
While it’s comforting to think that loved ones who have passed on were welcomed with love by friends and family in a peaceful, beautiful place, it’s not in line with Biblical teaching and so I question the phenomenon. What is Biblical is that the person, the consciousness or soul, is separate from the body, so the thought that one could momentarily experience existing outside the body are not what gives me pause. The only support I can find for such a thing would be Old Testament, being “gathered unto your people” at death, speaking of Sheol. From a Christian perspective, the righteous were freed from Sheol by Jesus Christ. Maybe Catholics are less dubious about this because of a belief in Purgatory? I don’t know the answer to that.
A chemical called DMT made naturally in the body is said to be the cause and I think has been tested with similar results.
I could be VERY WRONG and this has no reflection on my religious beliefs.
Either way, maybe God gave us DMT, possibly to make our passing easier to relieve fear and suffering. Just a guess.
Little red flag there for pro-lifers and for the scientific community. The folks for whom consciousness fades experience different reactions. Brain activity, or lack thereof, is probably the best indicator we have of the end of life. But when does it cease completely and the person's soul pass from time into eternity? That second is as elusive as is the moment at conception when God imparts the soul into that little tiny cell.
If a person is clinically dead and has an experience, and returns to tell of it, maybe our means of determining death could use some reevaluation.
As an aside, we know people in both the Old and New Testaments were raised from the dead (or at least from a coma, as Jairus' daughter, "sleeping") what's to stop God from choosing to do so now?
One more point, and I'll get off the soap box. I always wonder what it was like for Lazarus to return from eternity after 3 days in our time (no one can fathom how long that was for him)... I always thought that, returning in a shroud, awakening in a tomb, I would be petrified; sick from the air, even angry that I had to return. But thinking about it just now, after reading the article, maybe Lazarus was comforted and strengthened in his return by the Voice of the One Who called him forth from the grave. Maybe he was just as happy to see Jesus as everyone was, to see him... Just a thought...
I reflect almost daily on the two times doctors tried to kill me
Nonetheless, to paint this subject with such a broad brush is not true.
Nonetheless, to paint this subject with such a broad brush is not true.