Is everything you know about 2nd Coming wrong? [pre-tribulation rapture]

WND ^ | August 22, 2015 | Richardson: Events of next 5 years 'will utterly destroy' pre-trib rapture doctrine

[markomalley]

Filmmaker, evangelist and renowned bible prophecy teacher Joel Richardson says it is a time of change for the church, especially when it comes to teachings about the End Times and the rapture. The author of the New York Times bestseller “The Islamic Antichrist” recently appeared with Joe Schimmel on Rick Wiles’s TruNews radio program to discuss the what he believes is the false doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture.

Wiles himself supports the post-tribulation position, stating, “I personally do not believe that by the year 2020, any credible person will be teaching the secret pre-trib rapture doctrine. I think the events that are coming in the next five years will utterly destroy the doctrine.”

The pre-tribulation school of thought has been an important force in American Christianity for decades, with proponents such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice. This school holds believers will be raptured before the great tribulation during the End Times, thus avoiding it. In contrast, Richardson believes the rapture will not occur until during the tribulation period. Thus, believing Christians will not be spared the persecution and calamities of the End Times.

Richardson is featured on a DVD exploring the issue entitled “Left Behind or Led Astray?” During the film, Richardson explains what he sees as the crucial importance of the issue.

“It’s one of the premiere pastoral issues of our day. If you’re a pastor that’s not preparing your people to face potentially the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation, in this hour, simply because your denomination teaches it or whatever, personally I think you’re failing in your role as a shepherd and a pastor.”

[WildHighlander57]

editor-surveyor wrote:

“Nonsense!

One cannot dismiss the testimony of Polycarp.

But it is nonsense because it denies the word of God,mostly.

You are a False Prophet. “

Well, does that mean that —in this instance—

about 250 years of Protestantism (Presbyterian, Lutheran, Reformed, etc),

and about 1,750 years of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy

Are false prophets?

Because the concept of dispensationalism/rapture/tribulation period/ daniels 70th week had its origins with Darby and Margaret MacDonald in the 1830’s.

[mountn man]

Sorry.

Misread/understood your statement.

[mountn man]

Not the place itself.

Where in the Bible is it mentioned.

[mountn man]

“How do we know that we’re not in the tribulation period now?”

. Because the man of sin has not revealed himself standing on the mercy seat of the ark, and declaring himself to be God.

That would signify The Great Tribulation.
The last 3-1/2 years .

[RginTN]

when the Rapture happens then what? Only the nonChristiaans will be left to debate the doctrine

[Marcella]

“There is no mid trib.”

YOU say there is no mid trib. I say there is. We have different opinions and that is okay.

I was pre trib for many years but now believe it is mid trib. A good book on the subject is, “Before God’s Wrath”, “The Bible’s Answer to the Timing of the Rapture”, by H.L. Nigro (Revised and expanded edition). There is a tribulation and after that the day of God’s Wrath. Christians are not appointed to endure the day of God’s Wrath.

I realize how many versions there as to these times and I don’t argue with anyone about their belief of the timing of the end days. I think Obama was elected twice due to the eyes of the people being blinded to his evil character. He has helped set up the world for Islamic destruction to take place and I think it is coming here due to his bringing many thousands of Muslims here as “refugees” and allowing the jihad type Muslims to cross our borders from Canada and Mexico.

I am really old and been a Bible scholar since I was ten years old and can see the Biblical end days unfolding in front of me. I hope to be alive to experience the rapture.

[Pelham]

I believe that they are extrapolating this idea from Revelation 12:6.

[mountn man]

Revelation 12 deals with the Woman...Israel

[Marcella]

I agree with the posts you have made.

[kelly4c]

SO then where is the Lord’s second coming? It was supposed to happen immediately after the tribulation no? Where are we on God’s timeline then.

[SubMareener]

Luke 21

34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and†cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
35 "For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Nelson, Thomas (2009-02-18). Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 1023). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

So I watch and pray that I may be counted as worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass.

We are seeing a return to the "Book of Acts" level of Christian persecution. We are seeing the return of the Messianic Jewish believers. We are seeing a level of wickedness in the world that recalls the days of Noah and Sodom.

September 23, 2015 is exactly 49 prophetic (360 day) years from the date that the Jews recaptured Jerusalem. Sir Isaac Newton thought that God divided the first 69 weeks (sevens of years) into 7 weeks and 62 weeks for a reason. That the total identified Christ's first coming after the order to "restore and rebuild Jerusalem" and the 7 weeks after the order to "restore" would identify His second coming.

September 23, 1017 is the day that the Revelation 12:1-2 "great wonder in the heavens" appears. This particular arrangement of sun, moon, stars and planets has not occurred in the past 7000 years and won't happen in the next 2000 years.

On 17 August 2017 = 25th of Av, 5777 a total solar eclipse will slash across America from South Carolina to Oregon. On 8 April 2024 = 29th of Adar II, 5784 a total solar eclipse cuts from Mexico across Texas to Maine. Completing the "crossing off" of the United States? Commercial Babylon has fallen??

Previous Bible Prophecy has only been recognizable after it has occurred. The whole history of the Greek Empire in Daniel 11 was incomprehensible until after it happened. The end-time prophesy will probably not be any different.

However. if it turns out that we find ourselves in the Great Tribulation, remember this: DON'T TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST! It is better to loose ones head than to loose ones immortal soul to the Eternal Lake of Fire.

Romans 10
6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Nelson, Thomas (2009-02-18). Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 1100). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

[Pelham]

The way I’ve heard it explained these would be Israeli converts which is why Petra would be close enough to serve as their desert refuge.

[mountn man]

The way I’ve heard it explained these would be Israeli converts which is why Petra would be close enough to serve as their desert refuge.

This I would agree with.

What I have issue with is the statement I was addressing
“I think rapture myths are being used to control gullible well meaning christians to not taking action”

Almost!

They are being used by Satan to prevent believers from doing what Yeshua asked them to do in order to be protected in the place he will prepare for that purpose in the desert.

Which to me is a blanket statement that all Christians, throughout the entire world, are going to go to Petra or where ever the protected place actually is.

I don't see this as being all believers. Revelation 12 is specifically addressing Israel, or at the very least Israeli converts.

If this were addressing all believers, we are currently looking at a world population of 7 billion.
Some people like to claim 10% of the earth are believers. That would be 700 million.
If we break it down to 1% instead, that still leaves 70 million.

Now we have the argument of are Christians affected by Gods seals and bowl judgements? Because one describes 1/4 of the planet being wiped out and another another 1/3. That means about 3.535 billion people will be wiped out by Gods wrath.

How many are believers? Or are the believers protected from God's wrath at this time.

Petra, if it is the protected place, is very small. Currently Israel 8 million people. But Revelation specifically mentions 144,000 jews, set aside by God.

My point being, I disagree with what the poster said. The place in the dessert isn't for all the current or surviving Christians, from all over the world. Revelation 12 is specifically for Israel in general or the 144,000 at the very least, that is who the protected place is for.

[Iscool]

Please see my post 18. Christians around the world are already going through major tribulations. Biblical level tribulations. I am confused as to what makes some Christians think they will be exempt.

Because God says so...

No one said we think we will be exempt...We don't know what kind of terror those in the Tribulation will go thru since God says it will be worse than anything that has ever happened before...We are just beginning to see what they are going thru in other countries...We imagine what we see now in those countries is the worse that can happen...

The O.T. speaks of a time when mothers will eat their babies to stay alive...But the point is the Tribulation is the time of God's wrath on the unbelieving world...Upon those governments that have turned against Israel...

1Th_5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

[Pelham]

I agree with what you are saying.

[60Gunner]

It is not our task to know when Christ will return, it is our task to be READY.

[VerySadAmerican]

I’ve always wondered if we all didn’t miss it when I think about all those pictures on milk cartons a few years back.

[Psalm 73]

"...pre-tribulation rapture...was the default position among evangelicals."

Pretty-much - but it's not like we have any choice in the timing, that's strictly up to God.
I guess it depends on what verses you use and how you interpret - both schools (all three w/ mid-trib) have valid points, but for now I'd rather the happy thought of an earlier return of Jesus.

No matter - God is in control.

[huldah1776]

Israel was not forgiven once as a nation. Have you not read Lamentations? Why was the nation invaded?

“However, the LORD did not turn from the fierceness of His great wrath with which His anger burned against Judah, because of all the provocations with which Manasseh had provoked Him. And the LORD said, “I will remove Judah also from My sight, as I have removed Israel. And I will cast off Jerusalem, this city which I have chosen, and the temple (house) of which I said, ‘My name shall be there.’”

“Surely at the command (mouth) of the LORD it came upon Judah, to remove them from His sight because of the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he had done, and also for the innocent blood which he shed, for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; AND THE LORD WOULD NOT FORGIVE.” (All caps mine) 2 Kings 23: 26 & 27 and 24: 3 & 4

Manasseh was practicing child sacrifice. The nations around Israel were to see that Israel’s God is the only God. Today, only 6 nations have NOT legalized child sacrifice. Therefore, God’s wrath is now worldwide. God has not changed. He avenges the innocent. Read Lamentations.

[Biggirl]

.....Or make you think you will not suffer for your faith in Jesus.