Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
I like it. It has that 'The Hills have Eyes' quality to it.
Immaterial to the discussion. You doubt me? Look it up yourself.
“None of those are used in worship services.”
So weddings are not times of worship of God? Wow, I hope your reception was more upbeat.
“Now Catholics on the other hand use many pagan practices, vestments, etc in their worship services in direct disobedience to God’s command.”
Actually Catholic vestments are largely or entirely taken from Roman secular dress - not religious dress. But why let facts get in the way of old fashioned Protestant anti-Catholic hypocrisy, right?
Wedding rings - that’s from pagans.
Yes. And?
Like the fish hat that priests of the pagan fish god Dagon wore?
“It is the most accurate info about the catholic church per their statement.”
What pope or Church council appointed you to a position to judge the accuracy of it?
“It is written by catholics......who have told the truth.”
Which you misrepresented. You falsely claimed: “I post facts from a catholic website that blows the “immaculate conception” out of the water,”
Nothing like that happened.
“Sorry it hurts. The truth usually does.”
Then you must be doubled over in pain. Maybe that’s why you keep running from the questions about “sleep” and sola scriptura.
“stay on task here.”
Said the person refusing to answer questions about sola scripture and “sleep” in the Bible in post after post.
“You keep trying to deflect which tells me you can’t defend this mess.”
Again, you keep missing the point. You made a false claim (”I post facts from a catholic website that blows the “immaculate conception” out of the water,”). You refuse to deal with the problems of sola scripture: it isn’t in the Bible; Elsie’s ideas probably differ entirely from yours and are still sola scriptura based in his/her view.
“Immaterial to the discussion.”
Really? This is what you said:
“Departing from the original language is what gets us with false doctrines.”
So, if departing from the original languages is the issue, then it is appropriate to ask about your knowledge of the original languages. After all if you don’t know those languages, then you might be a big believer in false doctrines according to your own logic as stated in your own statement. So, I’ll ask again: “How many years of Greek and Hebrew do you have under your belt?”
“You doubt me? Look it up yourself.”
How many years of Greek and Hebrew do you have under your belt?
“Like the fish hat that priests of the pagan fish god Dagon wore?”
No.
1) Dagon was not a Roman god.
2) What his priests wore would not be secular by definition.
3) Some morons believe miters are from the headresses worn by “Dagon’s priests” but historians know that isn’t true. Miters are not of the same design as the headgear of Dagon’s priests. Facts, of course, won’t stop stupid people from being stupid. If that were true, there would be no Protestantism.
CynicalBear,
You apparently ran away from my question:
So weddings are not times of worship of God?
Wedding vows - that’s from pagans.
Do not keep asking the same question again - that is badgering. No answer IS an answer.
Here are Catholic websites that answer the question: “Why do Catholics pray to Mary?”
Each one of the sources below gives the same answer: We pray for her intercession.
http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu67.htm
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/04/do-catholics-worship-mary.html
http://www.catholicscomehome.org/mary-the-saints/
“Do not keep asking the same question again - that is badgering. No answer IS an answer.”
Thanks for confirming how effective the posts were. I appreciate it.
It is so logical, isn’t it? The Catholic Transitive Property. When I converted this made so much sense to me. I just don’t get how others continue to deny it.
The selection of the writings of Holy Scripture, in which you search for direct reference to the Immaculate Conception, was done by Holy Spirit-inspired Catholic men.
The writings by Church Fathers about Mary, which did form Catholic tradition and the Magisterium and the papal decree, were done by Holy Spirit-inspired Catholic men.
The “reason” you write of, within us Catholics, is faith.
Saying that Mary is the mother of God denies the Incarnation.
Saying that Mary is the mother of Jesus, does not.
Calling her the mother of God only focuses on one part of His identity. Calling her mother of Jesus recognizes both natures.
Caution: Goalpost moving in effect.
The topic is incorporating pagan practices into worship of God, claiming that they are sanctified that way.
But God told the Israelites NOT to incorporate pagan practices into their worship of Him because He is not like other gods. The principle holds.
This whole world is under the influence of the enemy and if someone nitpicked enough and dug deep enough for dirt on someone, they could make all kinds of false and irrelevant accusations, as we see happening in here.
So instead of turning this around and focusing on what CB does in his personal life, you could stay o topic and address the admission by Catholics that the church incorporates pagan practices in it and approves of it.
Please don't forget the cross, itself.
Once a symbol of pagan torture and execution, a device to strike fear into the masses, of a miserable death.
Yet, somehow, that cross has become a Christian symbol of life everlasting.
Funny how those pagan thingies have different meaning now, in a Christian context.
Who said Catholics don’t refer to her as both?
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