Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
Sigh - The Greek word in the verse (John 17:22) you used has a different meaning than the Hebrew word used in Isaiah 42:8.
It has a different meaning in Catholicism. :)
The Hebrew word for glory is commonly used in the scriptures. Consider the context in Exodus here and John.
1391 dóksa (from dokeō, "exercising personal opinion which determines value") – glory. 1391 /dóksa ("glory") corresponds to the OT word, kabo (OT 3519, "to be heavy"). Both terms convey God's infinite, intrinsic worth (substance, essence). And he said , I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Yes, congratulations. I think you're getting it.
Philip was....*drum roll please*......an Apostle!!
Therefore, in explaining Scripture to the eunuch, the tradition being used was....Apostolic i.e. acquired from Jesus himself.
I can't make heads or tails of this statement.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus is described as being "full of grace", but He was not a sinner. So on that account, your definition makes no sense.Sanctifying grace is a sharing in the very life of God. It is a supernatural state of being able to bask in the lovingkindness of God, imbibe His friendship and share in His very nature, "partakers" in the divine nature, as Peter says (2 Peter 1:4.)
In the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve were created in a state of grace, which is to say, they were created in the Image and Likeness of God; they spoke with God; they had a relationship of love with God.
They were in Original Grace. They didn't have to have sin first, and then get grace!
. You continue to parrot the wrong translation of Luke 1:28. Why?
Yes, congratulations. I think you're getting it.
Philip was....*drum roll please*......an Apostle!!
Therefore, in explaining Scripture to the eunuch, the tradition being used was....Apostolic i.e. acquired from Jesus himself.
Put down the drum sonny, THAT Philip was not an Apostle...
Matthew 1:19 calls Joseph a "just" man and his mercy was part of his justice--- he did not want to expose Mary to rejection and shame. As well, he quickly believed Mary's explanation of the supernatural conception of her Son: we see that Joseph could discern the truth of divine things, and that is an other aspect of his justice.
He is a wonderful example for all men.
I'm glad to see you finally admit it.
I'm glad to see you finally admitting that, too.
Yes. Your posts are.
Wow! You are convicted WITH YOUR OWN WORDS!
I'd actually rather leave it in the Greek, which means so much MORE than the rather simplistic "Full of Grace."#126 - Kecharitomene (LINK) grammatically captures the much deeper, more intricate significance of this "fullness of grace."
This is a brilliant word, a packed word, a unique word used once and only once in human history, by an Angel of the Lord, and only to describe one person: Mary.
The grammatical form conveys that this "fullness of grace" is passive, past, continuing, perfect, and nominative.
In other words, something was done FOR her, in the past, persisting in its effect, to a complete degree, and that specifies (as a name, title or nominative) who she is in God's eyes.
I think God's choice of Koine Greek as the language in which to write the New Testament, was providential in itself. Such wonderful things we can learn from these words of the Word of God.
There is debate about that but for the purpose of this discussion it has no bearing on the point at issue.
Whether Philip the Apostle, or Philip the deacon first described in Ch 6 of Acts, the point remains.
Philip the Apostle was chosen by Jesus and Philip the deacon was appointed and commissioned by the Apostles themselves.
Neither can be cited as an example of preaching Scripture in the absence of Apostolic Tradition.
“To her”
Yeah, I’ve seen that. Unfortunate language for those trying to understand, but it’s not what it appears. More like “send through”.
Look, Catholicism does NOT hold Mary is a goddess, but that divinity is in the Trinity and only the Trinity.
“But she’s DEAD”
We believe those in heaven have LIFE. See the Gospels. Jesus conversed with Elijah and Moses. And Luke 16:19-30 - parable of the rich mans and Lazarus. There are others. Again, this is in accord with Scripture.
“To her”.
We are splitting hairs about the language.
Mary is not worshipped, but honored. To be clearer, Catholics do not believe she is divine or part of the Trinity.
Sure, that's what your religion tells you...But when the rest of the world can see that you worship Mary in spite of your protestations, your claims become irrelevant...
Elsie: That's like saying, "Show that Phil actually used oral communication in talking with the eunuch."
What Philip said was "Tradition" by definition. He was an Apostle. He preached. Oral preaching by an Apostle is exactly what is meant by Apostolic Tradition.
If everything he said on that occasion were written down, it would be Written Tradition. I.e. Scripture.
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