The Coming Evangelical Divide

It’s true that we have often disagreed over things like church government, views of the Second Coming, baptism, lifestyle habits, worship style and musical preference. But those differences, though deeply felt, were intramural debates over secondary issues.

It is isn’t just about homosexuality or even about gay marriage, though that is the most obvious factor. When all the cards are out on the table, it will be clear that we have divided over biblical authority. Some of us will say, "We accept the 2000-year-old teaching shared until recently by every branch of the Christian movement that God designed marriage for one man and one woman.” We will also say that all sexual activity outside of marriage is sin. And we will continue to insist that homosexual behavior is always sinful.

Evidently not everyone will agree with us. That includes some folks who graduated from our leading Christian colleges and seminaries.

For a variety of reasons, they will insist that the church has been wrong about this for 2000 years and that we must extend Christian fellowship to openly homosexual men and women. They must be allowed to join the church, sing in the choir, teach Sunday School, and if they are otherwise qualified, they could be chosen as deacons, elders and pastors.

As Al Mohler has recently insisted, there is no middle ground on this issue. We aren’t going to be able to paper over the difference or to "agree to disagree” as if this issue is like disagreeing on the timing of the rapture or whether or not we should sing more hymns.

The people who argue for full inclusion of gays and lesbians in the church are going to go one way, and the rest of us are going to go another. This will mean splitting denominations, leaving churches, and in some cases, it will divide families.

No one can be happy about the very real pain involved. But better that we should separate than stay together and pretend at a unity that does not exist.

A few years ago I would have thought that most evangelicals would stay true to the biblical teaching about marriage. Today I will hedge my bets on that issue. We hear seductive voices calling us to "rethink” our position while other influential leaders admit to "struggling” over this issue. Clearly those voices are having an impact.

But in one sense it doesn’t matter. The people who think it’s okay for two guys or two girls to get married and then come and lead Awana on Wednesday night will never be accepted by the rest of us.

Because our culture has shifted on this issue, the price for fidelity to biblical teaching is rising all the time. Christians who openly stand for one man-one woman marriage will face increasing opposition in the days to come. It may be that we will be the ones leaving some churches because we are the minority.

The divide is coming and in some senses is already upon us. We all get to decide where we will stand.

You can’t straddle the fence forever. Pastor, you’ll have to take a stand. Church leaders, you’ll have to take a stand. Christian friend, you’ll have to take a stand.

Years ago I heard Don Cole say that "it is better to divide over truth than to unite around error.” He was right, and because of that we will soon be going in different directions.

Read the verse in the context of chapter two. Note that chapter 2 is talking primarily to the Gentiles after verse 11. Prior to that it is talking about our faith in Christ...especially 2:8-9 "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and not that of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. In v 19 Paul continues the message that the Gentiles are now fellow citizens and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone.... the apostles and prophets, mostly Jewish if I remember, received the message first as noted in verse 11, then it was given to the Gentiles as noted in verse 13. It was given through the blood of Christ. The faith in Christ Paul was writing about in v1-10. In other words, faith in Christ is the foundation. It is the rock upon which Christianity is built. Nothing else could be the foundation. 1 Corinthians 3:10-11 notes this also. Verse 11 says "for no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Are you a Gentile ? Then by your own admission you must be built on the foundation Ephesians is showing or you are not part of the building. "In other words,", we don't need other words; we have the scripture in front of us; it ties the holy catholic apostolic church together in unity being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone. When you switch the context to 1 Corinthians I note that Paul individualizes the application to each believer: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Surely each man is not his own church. Do you think Jesus' prayer to the Father failed ? Building upon the Apostles he prayed Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Something is very seriously amiss with the "Re-formation" and the continual divisions of its aftermath; it is not what the LORD Jesus Christ asked of the Father.

Again, the whole foundation is built upon faith in Christ. It is not built upon a church or "membership" in a church. Any foundation the apostles and prophets laid was built on Christ and Christ alone.

The whole passage in John 20 is about Christ and His message. That is the message that was taught to the disciples which they in turn shared with the Jews first and then the Gentiles. That is the message that Christ is wanting the disciples to share. It's ALL about Christ and Christ alone.

I agree that Christ wants us to be one. But the problem is that the RCC has departed from the Word and has brought in false teachings such as the papacy which is not in the Bible, equating "tradition" with Scripture, the practice of indulgences, the worship and praying to Mary, Mary remaining a virgin, her assumption, her role in our salvation, whole sections of the RCC devoted to studying Mary instead of Christ, the reversal of doctrines by various popes, the practice of eisegesis verses exegesis,etc.

Eisegesis involves 1) imagination: what idea do I want to present? 2) exploration: what Scripture passage seems to fit with my idea? and 3) application: what does my idea mean? Notice that, in eisegesis, there is no examination of the words of the text or their relationship to each other, no cross-referencing with related passages, and no real desire to understand the actual meaning. Scripture serves only as a prop to the interpreter’s idea.

Exegesis involves 1) observation: what does the passage say? 2) interpretation: what does the passage mean? 3) correlation: how does the passage relate to the rest of the Bible? and 4) application: how should this passage affect my life?

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html#ixzz355tVgfFI

1) Actually understand the Bible, not just gloss certain verses out of context.

Yup. My denomination does just that.

2) Study actual real history, not the rantings of certain anti-Catholic bigots.

As soon as someone reads "actual real history," along with understanding the Bible, they realize the Catholic church is wrong on many things. That just earns them the title of anti-Catholic bigots.

3) Realize that the Catholic Church offers the single best hope for salvation.

Jesus does that. Not a man made institution. That is gleaned from reading history as well as an understanding Scripture.

The text says the foundation is the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself bring the chief cornerstone. Jesus said to Peter 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Jesus chose Peter as both foundation and steward with an awesome power and responsibility. I think it is an anti-catholic bias stemming from a rebellion about 500 years ago that prevents people from obeying the clear text of Scripture. They have re-formed the faith once delivered to the saints into something new and different than the text; and they always seem to blame Catholics for the rebellions and divergence, oblivious to the discontinuity that makes some of their doctrines inherently illegitimate.

The other common complaint I notice from almost every other adherent thinking their group is correct (and they are legion) is that the Catholic faith differs in many ways from their own and is wrong; well since they were only found five hundred or less years ago in order to rebel against the Orthodox, well yes it differs considerably as one would expect of any new religion, denomination, sect, or cult. They have no legitimate historical claim; only the other Orthodox can make that claim, so they are following something someone formed five hundred years ago or less, frequently far less. Of course they don’t agree with each other either and accountability is ephemeral. Can I mention Bill Gothard ?

>>>How many will come BACK to the Catholic Church?

Why? So they can join the heresy of believing Islamic prayers should be heard in the Vatican? So we can also hear the Koran being read "in church?"

So...it's more pleasing to say Allah and Jehovah are the same...and to say there is something to be gained by reading the Koran and hearing Islamic prayers than homosexuality?

Mark these words...the Catholic Church will cave on homosexuality...it's a matter of time. But even if they don't, it has already committed heresy by elevating Islam above what it really is...which is a Satanic DECEPTION. The Koran was written by Satan...Islam worships the moon god...and does the will of Satan...

And your leader is embracing it. No thanks. I'll stick with Jesus and leave the heresy for someone else.

So you're equating time in existence with correctness? By that definition Islam, Hinduism and others can make the claim their viewpoint is right.

I could make a case that the RCC has been on the "wrong" road now for over 1800 or so years. It is very possible to be in error that wrong and not realize it.

If the RCC can't point to verses in the Bible to substantiate their claims, without taking them out of context or reading something into them, then it's the RCC that has to explain/defend it's positions on issues of theology.

When the RCC is called out on their false teachings I note they often change the topic in an attempt to not address the charges.

When one sticks to the Bible, and the teachings in the Bible, you don't have to worry about that.

>>>Please go back to the story and re-read the stories about this.. This did not happen inside St. Peter’s, but outside in a garden.

Yeah...that makes it so much better. A real "Vicar of Christ" would have looked Islam in the face and told the truth: This is a teaching of the devil and is sending people to hell."

But...nope. He embraced it. Jesus ALWAYS condemned false teaching. Paul did so as well...as did Peter. They never tolerated heresy.

The day is coming. You will have to make a choice. You will have to make a decision to follow man...or God. Eventually, in the not too distant future, this Pope will go too far in his embrace of Islam...his rejection of Biblical Truth...and/or his embrace of his liberation theology. On that day you will make a choice that will impact your eternal soul. I fear this pope could come right out and say Allah is the same as God...the Islamic Call to Prayer is beautiful and on par with the Rosary...and you will cling to it rather than run. It will be your eternal undoing. Throughout eternity you will then be haunted by this conversation.

>>>The Catholic Church IS the ONLY church which has not caved on this issue.

And that is an out and out falsehood. My church hasn't...and we are prepared to be jailed and persecuted to maintain that belief. Are there some members of my denomination who support it? Sure are....just like there are a LOT of Catholics who do...and who voted for BHO BECAUSE of it.

Meanwhile, Pope Francis said: "the issue of gay marriage should be studied and not dismissed out-of-hand." - WRONG. It SHOULD BE.

It's coming...and you better be ready to swallow it.

I'm not sure how you get from "the apostles and prophets" to then "built on Peter alone". I'm not sure how you get from all of the apostles given the power to bind and loose to the "Peter alone can bind and loose". Jesus said he would give the keys to Peter, but he did not say Peter alone. If the power of the keys is to bind and loose, and all of the apostles have that power, what does that imply?

in I Corinthians 3, Paul is very clear. "I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Peter is foundation. Paul is foundation. The foundation is laid and others are building upon it. The Roman Catholic Church is not foundation. The popes are not foundation. The foundation has been laid and others are building on it.

In Romans 15, Paul writes "and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation,". Paul laid a foundation where none existed before. He didn't build on Peter. The churches he founded built upon the foundation Paul laid, which is Christ Jesus. Those churches did not build on Peter.

Again, the foundation is not Peter alone. The power to bind and loose was not given to Peter alone.

I've noticed a lot of churches with a Rainbow colored park bench out front with the saying “All are Welcome” on it. The idea being that some churches are trying to stop some people from knowing, loving and worshipping God. It's a sort of back-handed judgmentalism wherein they get to assure themselves that they are quite the opposite.

I would love to see a church put a park bench outside that says "All Penitents Welcome, Leave the Pride Outside" with the word pride done up in rainbow letters.

>>>The Catholic Church IS the ONLY church which has not caved on this issue.

http://www.archbalt.org/news-events/calendar/Event-Detail.cfm?uid=1168054F-C147-F009-9646CB01865E056E

So...no matter what our particular denominations particular stances are, looks like we both have congregations that want to do their own thing.

The official southern baptist stance is against gay marriage and homosexuality...but I am positive there are people who have strayed in their thinking. The RCC position is similar to the SBC...yet there are people off the reservation. The difference between the two of us is you guys are supposed to have a mechanism to keep people in line. We are independent churches and don't.

I really have always been puzzled as to how this happens in the Catholic church. I seriously don't know the answer to that question. If the Pope is the leader...and there is a hierarchy...how can the Baltimore Archdiocese do this without any fear of reprisal from the church?

If we had a baptist church who did this, we'd break fellowship with them. It's happened. How do you guys handle it?

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