Posted on 06/14/2014 4:58:45 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
In the fundamentalist Bible church I attended as a child we would regularly have long sermons about the “end times”. These were based on an interpretative system of the Bible called “Dispensationalism”.
The roots of this theology were the idea that history could be broken down into various “dispensations” or time periods and that God behaved differently and different things happened to the human race in these different dispensations. Part of this teaching was that the “rapture” would take place in which all the Christian people would be supernaturally whisked up into heaven and the sinners would remain behind. Thus the “Left Behind” series of books and films.
>>>You make no argument in support of the Rapture. You seem only concerned with references to Mary.<<<
I don’t believe Revelation 12 has anything to do with a resurrection, other than (briefly) the resurrection of Christ. It is primarily focused on the ascension of Christ and the persecution of the early Church.
Philip
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1
Jesus said we would know people by their fruits. Satan and the demons deny Christ and for a man to do the same thing reveals him for what he truly is - unregenerate, still in his natural state, at enmity with God, and under the wrath of God. No one who denies the Word of God will go in the Rapture.
God bless you PapaNew and happy Father's Day!
Bookmark
How can you possibly conclude that “For God hath not appointed us to wrath”, in any way indicates you’re escaping the Tribulation??
Have you considered that the conditional phrase in front of that quote is referring to AFTER you die?
What’s your point?
I already told you this refers to the Second Coming of Christ, and NOT any “rapture”!!!
“Behold I come as a thief” (Rev 16:5) (nobody knows when a thief comes) with “For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be” (Matt 24:27)
HA! Nicely put. Every generation thinks it is the last.
Again, why do I have to repeat what I've already posted to you? The same post you cite tells you why. Part of that "nasty problem" I was talking about.
A semi-incoherant answer, but adding three exclamation marks to your assertion doesn't make your argument any less conclusory nor does it reconcile your problem.
Also, as I've said, it's OK with me. If I don't get the chance to talk with you as we're going up while you're telling Jesus he came too soon, maybe we'll talk during the celebration later.
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
I don’t have a problem, as there is NO “rapture”.
Its a concept concocted in the 1800’s.
Is this the same Cynical Bear who said he wasn't going to respond to me again? You just can't trust anyone these days. LOL!
>>>2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,<<<
What does that passage mean in the vivid imaginations of those in the dispensational cult, Cynical? (I am only assuming you are allowed to speak for all.)
Philip
Read Matthew 5, it is the clear words of Yeshua. He says we have another thousand years of obeying his only covenant here on Earth
Jesus says no such thing. Therefore, I believe that qualifies as false prophecy; and my guess is that it came from a habitual false prophet. Would you care to reveal your source? LOL!
Philip
Excellent point. Heck, just read Paul's writing - incest, homosexuality, paganism, mysticism were all rampant even in many of the churches that Paul had planted. The idea that there was this perfect early Church is blown away by a careful reading of Paul's letters. In some ways, the early church was just as bad, and the world of those times much worse than today. That will probably upset the religious folks, but simply read if for yourself in Romans through Timothy.
All the letters where these passages are found were written TO Believers.
2 Timothy 1:15 (AMP)
15 You already know that all who are in Asia turned away and forsook me, Phygelus and Hermogenes among them.
1 Corinthians 5:1 (AMP)
1 IT IS actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, impurity of a sort that is condemned and does not occur even among the heathen; for a man has [his own] father's wife.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (AMP)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality, 10 Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:17-21 (AMP)
17 For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do. 18 But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law. 19 Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency, 20 Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies), 21 Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
I see the present day in a glass half full kind of light. Although there are a few "fiery darts of the enemy", we have more religious liberty than past centuries. God's Word is readily available in every language and largely not restricted by religious or government tyrants. There are more Spirit-filled teachers, ministries, and churches than at any other time in history. There has been a rediscovery of God's Truth, things like justification by faith, understanding the Mystery, the Body of Christ taught in the Epistles, and the Blessed Hope, all long buried by the dark ages of religious ignorance, but now brought back to light by the Holy Spirit. We just need more people to follow Paul's direction to Timothy, "Preach the Word!"
For a Believer, these are exciting times. The Body of Christ is expanding and maturing. Jesus is building HIS Church.
Wow, you're good at repeating that assertion with or without your exclamation points as though your saying it makes it so.
A valid argument requires more than a conclusory assertion. It requires evidence and reasoning - in this case scripture-based evidence and reasoning.
You may deny it until Jesus comes back, but you have failed to solve your "thief" problem reconciling with scripture-based reasoning and evidence: "Behold I come as a thief" (Rev 16:5) (nobody knows when a thief comes) with "For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt 24:27) (everybody'll see that).
You also haven't solved your "wrath" problem with scripture-based reasoning and evidence: "For God hath not appointed us to wrath" (1 Thess 5:9) and the seven-year period of the Tribulation being a time of "the wrath of the Lamb" (Rev 6:16) and "the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture" (Rev 14:10).
I pray you will let the Lord help you with this, as He (not man) did with me. Nevertheless, it's not a core issue - Christ is. But whoever can receive the comfort and reassurance scripture offers about the end times will be happier in the meantime.
Your problem is that you continue to insist that because we won’t know when the Second Coming of Christ will be, that somehow is evidence of a “rapture”.
Because I have scripturally addressed every other alleged reference to rapture, you now hang on this thin thread as though there is only one understanding of the meaning of “For God hath not appointed us to wrath”.
In this reference you will find the term “trial” where you have wrath.
There are many Bible verses that show that Christ permits his Church to suffer persecution and tribulation. In John 17:15 Christ says, “I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one”. John 16:33 says, “In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
John 15:19 says that Christians have been chosen “out of the world,” but it does not say that Christians will be ‘taken’ out of the world, prior to a time of persecution.
The Church will endure persecutions and tribulations and it will come through them purified.
Never said that.
Because I have scripturally addressed every other alleged reference to rapture, you now hang on this thin thread as though there is only one understanding of the meaning of “For God hath not appointed us to wrath”.
You most certainly have not addressed nor put together ANY reasoned, Biblically-based argument reconciling EITHER of the two basic and fundamental problems I've presented to you.
There are many Bible verses that show that Christ permits his Church to suffer persecution and tribulation. In John 17:15 Christ says, “I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one”. John 16:33 says, “In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
Yes but your fatal flaw is failing to distinguish between the trials God allows his people for their good versus the trials and troubles God will unleash upon the world in judgement and wrath, which he will keep his people from (Rev 3:10).
All who have accepted Christ were judged 2000 years ago on the cross of Christ. There is no more judgement or wrath remaining for God's people because of Christ's perfect sacrifice on the cross. There is, however, fearful and dark judgement and wrath coming for the world that has refused the free gift of forgiveness and salvation through Jesus Christ. God will keep his people from the coming trail of God's wrath and judgement because it serves no purpose for his forgiven people (Rev 3:10).
Again, there are NO Biblical verses that show that Christ permits his church to suffer his wrath, but expressly contrariwise, that Christ has NOT appointed us to "the wrath to come" (1 Thess 1:10).
Your problems reconciling scripture regarding Jesus coming as "a thief in the night" (1 Thess 5:2) and our not being appointed to his wrath (1 Thess 5:9) remain unresolved my FRiend.
I pray you will allow the Lord to help you. If not, we'll talk about it on the way up.
Why do you insist this isn’t the Second Coming of Christ?
Jesus coming as “a thief in the night” (1 Thess 5:2)
Never said that either.
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